To think GCSE are wrong for many kids

[Mountainsuccess]

I see the level of parental involvement and stress many parents go through when the kids are doing GCSES.

I think if there is so much parental involvement needed surely GCSES are not the right thing for many kids. The number of exams and pressure is completely crazy for a 15/16 year old. Do they actually remember anything after the exams? Or is the UK education system just an exam factory?

The government put so much pressure on schools and schools on teachers, parents, kids. It is just all about results. I feel there is so much micromanaging from the government. Why is this? Why the Government doesn’t trust teachers and parents? Is this ever going to change? Isn’t this supposed to be an advanced country?

Please enlighten me. I am not English but raising kids here.

I think a limit on number of subjects would be a start so doing more is no advantage also like in Scotland where two papers for maths the non calculator paper is 9- 10.15 then paper 2 is 11 - 12.30 . Also we have something called application of maths and the option to do Nat 4 instead of Nat 5. Most schools do 7 subjects with English and Maths being compulsory though some do 6-8.
I think 9 GScE is plenty with the option of just doing 5-7 for less able students by having more lessons and not doing English literature

I also think schools and parents can add unnecessary stress there's a happy medium between leaving them completely unsupported and devising 8 hour a day revision timetables

Definitely wouldn't want a system like China Singapore where children are in school or with tutors from 8am until 9-10pm
My DD did 7 Nay 5 last year so 7 exams done split into 2 short exams in the same session. This year she did 5 Highers again 5 sessions mostly 2 parts First a multi choice short answer paper then 45 minutes later the long answer paper. Normally for each subject Nat 5 in the morning Higher in afternoon or vice versa so never 2 exams for different subjects on same day, there is plenty of faults with Scottish education but not having 20 exams for 8 subjects is not one of them

Why would the various goverments change it when they can use it as a political football and get parents to rip teachers to shreds for the decissions that they are forced to make?

Don’t conflate helicopter parenting with GCSEs being dreadful. Those same parents are stressing about every aspect of their offspring’s lives - and I’m sure you wouldn’t post how pointless driving tests or first jobs are for most people.

They work for most kids. Some they don’t work for, and those kids can do far fewer, or entry level stuff, or life skills.

Our education system requires us to specialise much earlier than most other countries, hence we take our high school leaving exams at 16, which means kids can drop the subjects they hate then. Other countries that have their high school leaving exams at 18 have two more years of studying a wide range of subjects. And longer at university as a result.

Totally agree.

My (very dyslexic) daughter did a mix of GCSEs and BTECs at school. The BTECs she did really well in but really struggled to pass the GCSEs. Our local high schools don’t offer BTECs at all now.

She went into college and did a level 3 extended diploma - again, did really well. She’s now at uni doing a degree (which is more along the lines of the BTEC with assignments and assessments and only 1 or 2 exams)

Kids have different ways of learning and GCSEs don’t work for a significant amount of them.

Depending on your age, you may have had a lot less exam than the current kids do. Most subjects don't have coursework. DD had 23 written exams, 1 MFL oral, 2 practical dance exams and 2 practical drama ones.

Coursework can’t come back because of online cheating.

The only way to test fairly is to do it under exam conditions.

GCSEs are ok, there is a wide range of grades, if you go into school, keep up with homework, engage with the lessons and do revision for the regular topic tests, mocks and final exams the student will get a grade, what grade might be determined by natural ability or amount of work put in, or both.

There is pressure for a month or two but so what? It’s not like we are preparing students for like after school which has no pressure.

Absolutely agree with you OP. It’s madness how bad it is for our young people.

and the usual points are coming up on the thread:
(1) I had nothing to do with it, my kids did it all themselves — well all kids are different and there are so many kids who need some support given the intensity of the exams and the amount and depth of material now
(2) my parents did nothing to help me when I did it — same. But don’t even try to compare the amount and complexity of content now to GCSEs back then. I reckon my GCSEs were about the level of what kids now do at Y8-9 and maths I think they passed it before that!
(3) they don’t count for anything. Yes they do, if you want to apply for competitive universities they will definitely look at your grades as anything else is just predictions for A level (don’t get me started on that mess of a system either)…

I think the data shows that much higher percentage go to university now than in the 80’s. Did you go to a good comprehensive in a nice area, perhaps a grammar school that had become a comprehensive rather than a secondary modern - if all your peer group went?

I agree there was a stigma about CSE’s for those who were thought to be university candidates. I did O level biology and CSE as a back up as my teacher thought I may not pass the O level. I did, and also got a CSE grade 1 which I never bothered to include on any applications/CV’s etc.

I grew up in Easter Europe.
Every day was a new test, exam or questioning at the blackboard.
Everyday you had to be prepared. If you weren't, you got a bad mark and telling off from your parents. Everyday you had to do your homework and study hard.
With this level of work and stress that we were used to, A-levels were nothing (we don't have GCSEs).
I was one of the best students, and I still managed to enjoy myself and wasted a lot of time playing PC games, so it's not that I didn't have a childhood. But there was constant pressure on results and we knew we had to do well at school.

I believe Nat 5s involve an element of continuous assessment, not just exam performance?

Yeah that's probably true. My comprehensive was in a pretty middle class area and is now Ofsted outstanding so it was a skewed sample group, admittedly. There probably are too many people going to university.

I still think that having two different classes of exam results creates not just academic stratification but social stratification which is unhelpful and holds kids back unnecessarily.

If kids are absolutely certain at age 16 that they want to do something vocational there are plenty of options for them to do that, via apprenticeships or vocational qualifications. Having a two-tier exam system which clearly marks one set of kids out as educationally less capable but where that lower set doesn't support them in gaining vocational skills achieves nothing except turning the clock back to the 1970s.

Far better to get low GCSE passes, or a mix of GCSE grades, than a set of passes from a class of exam which is acknowledged to be designed for kids of lower academic attainment. With GCSE there is at least the potential to get some high grades. CSE (or an equivalent) consigns kids to the academic dustbin at age 16.

If students want to go to competitive universities then they have to be able to cope with GCSEs. Presumably, the reason they want to go to them is because they want the prestige that comes with attending an institution that is competitive to get into.

It's a ridiculous number of exams and a ridiculous emphasis on memorising stuff.

Surely memorisation is the least important skill for the modern world?

Unfortunately our education system is preparing children for a world of work that doesn't exist any more. Then somehow it's young people's fault that they can't find jobs 🤔

Yes but everyone has to take them regardless of wether they are apllying forca comptetsive univeristy or any university

GCSEs are very easy though, there are a lot of them, but they’re not the academic challenge the old o’ levels used to be.

But concern about cramming facts is valid, it’s more important to learn how to sift, analyse, discern.

They maybe for you
But lots of kids struggle with them.

But you already do that functionally because some kids don't achieve great, or even good, results.

Isn't that the point, to separate out the "tiers"?

There are all kinds of options for how universities could manage for older people who want to go back into education. One would be to use something like an SAT type test which anyone can add sit if they make the arrangements.

Where I live, universities will often look at what an older student has achieved in their employment, ask them to submit an essay, or sometimes sit a test. Typically late entry students for fairly well so they will tend to give them a chance anyway.

there is still coursework for many GCSEs. PE, Food Tech, DT, Art. Also Cambridge IGCSE English has a coursework component.

What do you want them to do instead? Employers etc need something to differentiate between applicants and how suitable they are for different roles.

Again, how is what you are describing, putting some kids into vocational qualifications, not already streaming kids?

Unless everyone takes the exams, and everyone does well, it's doing that.

The point is that they still had access to academic subjects. 11 year olds shouldn’t be told, that’s it you can only do XYZ.

I'd be for making A Levels tougher for this reason (or if not tougher, harder to get A stars), and GCSEs easier/different as they are for everyone.

“Very easy”. Don’t be insulting to all those who struggle. And 23+ exams plus coursework is not “easy” by any means.

People also shouldn’t forget that this is the first time most kids have sat anything as intensive as GCSEs. Yes of course they will need to learn how to cope with academic assessments more independent (if that’s the route they want to take), but this is new to them.

We’ve been very involved but in terms of helping them develop the skills and strategies needed for the future - teaching work life balance, reaffirming the importance of good nutrition and sleep, how to work out effectively study plans etc. This is all skill building to help support future resilience

I think due to AI and parental help, it’s time to scrap coursework…. There’s always been cheating with it but it’s getting much worse.

That seems like a total non sequiter. People who decide to go to university in their 20s aren't in school at all.

Why would changing the nature of GCSEs mean 11 year olds are forever losing access to academic courses?