Neighbour’s building work

[Frannyhy]

My neighbours want to improve their home which I have no problem with. After insisting on a party wall agreement, I’ve been sent the documentation.

This states that the work can’t start earlier than two months from the date of the letter unless I agree in writing. I won’t do this. Saving them money means I lose money, due to the fact I work at home. I can’t do this with construction noise going on.

All they can think of is that they might have to wait longer if their builders start another project and return later in the year. However, this timing would be more convenient for me.

AIBU

They may not have realised they needed the agreement before the builders told them.

Equally, they may have counted on having neighbours who won't want the work to go on for months over Christmas when it could be done quickly over the summer.

Either's possible.

I frequently have to work on a building site. It really isn’t a problem.

Agree entirely.

I have done party wall building works and had neighbours do party wall works too.

I never expected my neighbours to agree to the 2 months being shortened, and the neighbours didn’t expect us to agree to that when they did works.

They should have planned better and got their party wall notice in sooner. Really disorganised to wait till the builders are ready to start!

As you have a genuine reason why the 2 months notice is important to you, I wouldn’t waive it and I wouldn’t feel guilty or petty either. It’s standard and you are absolutely within your rights.

Building work happens. Residential or otherwise. Deal with it.

My office in London has had a four year construction project to build huge mother fucking sky scrapers right next to our windows and it has been LOUD.

We have all coped perfectly fine.

How did she cost you a bomb with her party wall agreement? Surely it's your party wall agreement? Or did she do works too? Or do you mean she insisted on a seperate surveyor?

Can't be worse than our ones? Ours neighbours did works. Our surveyor and theirs both turned out to be a..holes, kept arguing and had to go to adjudication and they found that both were as bad as each other, so we had to pay half of the adjudication fees, about 2k. 2k, and we didn't even have any work done. That stung!

They told me that they had work done on a previous property, and had a party wall agreement. So they would have known. The reason that it can take two months is that neighbors have that as notice period before work starts. If neighbours agree to work starting early, then it can. If they don’t it can’t.

The fact that the builders will move on to another project is not my problem. Nor is that fact that they have to stay paying rent until their work is complete. Their needs don’t trump mine.

And the other neighbours don’t want it now either. We’d all like to be able to sit outside without the noise of building work going on.

I agree OP. They should have planned better - the building work is entirely for their benefit, not yours.

However, it's worth keeping relationships cordial so at least explain to them that it's now too late to change the work arrangements you've made.

Our slightly thick neighbours are currently building to the boundary and our insurance company said we needed a party wall award (not just the agreement). I am so glad we did - it's been a very good way of making sure they e.g. stick to the allowed working hours, clear up our side after work every day - and, in theory, finish the work that affects us within two months. It has been very noisy at times, with a lot of vibration.

they Probably didn’t bank on you being awkward
party wall stuff is extremely straight forward
it’s only runs into problems when the other party ( you) goes on a power trip

you’ve laid down the gauntlet and set the tone
if I were then I’d give you zero consideration going forward

Building work can be complex and take time to organise. Plans might need Council approval, structural engineers, etc. A Party Wall agreement takes time to organise. There's got to be availability of the required professionals, who are in short supply, funnily enough. Builders in the business are very busy. And so on.

They've not been thick, they're just trying to organise & co-ordinate all the professional services they need, and be given time in the builder's schedule.

After a very unpleasant party wall and neighbours building experience (where PWA was absolutely necessary as they wrecked the shared wall between our 2 houses, and very nearly lost us our buyer as planning to move), I'm with you.
They could have started PW as soon as they got planning permission (you don't start getting quotes from builders until this is agreed as the council might ask for changes), a decent builder wouldn't have been available immediately. It sounds like they didn't do their research properly before they started and the PWA was an afterthought.
Enjoy a peaceful June and July before they start work, August, Sept will give them plenty of time to get the shell of the extension up, and after that the weather doesn't matter as they will be inside

Plus it sounds like potential to impact on your business and livelihood. If they really want to start sooner they could offer to pay for alternative premises for you

I think you need to talk to them OP. Simply not signing the agreement makes you look like an awkward toddler quite honestly. I have every sympathy for you not wanting building work going on when you work from home doing something that requires peace, but you need to go and talk to them about your concerns and see what they can do.

Obviously if they are nasty about it and just tell you to shut up because they have a right to do work, then maybe not signing the document would be a good ides, but they may be happy to arrange a convenient time with you or something. If you piss them off by just with holding the agreement to delay them, they may well start ensuring they disturb you as much as possible without breaking the law, and frankly I wouldn't blame them!

Because most builders are booked over a year in advance due to not many being around. It’s not thick, it’s the demand for a decent builder.

So is it your home business or is it you want to sit in your garden in summer?

In some ways it just sounds like you’re being difficult because you don’t like change and you resent your neighbours adapting their house.

I’ve had neighbours having building work and whilst it’s not ideal, it’s part and parcel of living in society. Unless you can live remotely on acres of land, it’s give and take. In some ways I was glad I was nice to my neighbours as when I had my baby she screamed day and night and they were very understanding. Again, it’s living in a community and picking your battles.

I think you over-estimate the amount of noise honestly. I've done wrap-around extension and loft conversion and lived in house through both so well aware of noise levels. Most of the time doing extension is digging foundations, pouring concrete etc. Steels and big bits of wood are brought onto site already cut. Brick-laying is quiet. Demolition of existing walls is noisy but quick. Loft conversion there may be some banging but honestly I'd say 80% of the time you won't be aware of much.

Regardless, I think this is a classic case of an OP asking if you're unreasonable, people saying yes, and you will never change your mind so why bother asking. Your tone comes off as belligerent to an unnecessary degree. I also find your attempt to boil this down to money (they neighbors want the work done sooner to make it cheaper? Eh?) really distateful. I'd tend to assume they want the work done quickly because they want to get on with their lives. And the reality is it being another time isn't going to make it 'more expensive' for the neighbors and it's going to be exactly the same impact on you. You know this. You're just not playing ball because you have the power and that's your prerogative. It doesn't make it nice. Or not unreasonable.

Absolutely, but that waiting time gave them plenty of time to get PW in place

I presume they have PW with their neighbours on other side too - unless its big plot and the works are more than 6m from the boundary? Are you a semi attached to them?

Even if you agreed to an earlier start, if your neighbours don't then they can't start anyway.

Bit of a home goal as well work takes longer in winter as shorter days and weather also this will run into the Christmas period
and very doubtful they’d be considerate of that because why should they you haven’t with them

but you are reinforcing the OP’s point!

If their builders were booked a year in advance then it’s even more ridiculous that they couldn’t give the OP the required 2 months’ notice. Since they knew ages ahead of that when the builders would be starting.

Simply not signing the agreement makes you look like an awkward toddler quite honestly

This isn’t about not signing the agreement

The standard agreement provides for 2 months delay from the time of the notice. OP is happy to sign that (I believe)

This is about whether the OP agreed to deviate from the standard agreement and waive the 2 months.

Not really - 2 months wait means starting at start of August. Noisy/external construction should be done in 3 months and finished latest October, and then will be internal fit out, which won't be impacted on by the weather. Also, in winter can close windows which reduces noise impact. So I'm not convinced its an own goal.

I think you have been thoroughly professional and in doing so protected yourself and your neighbours from misunderstandings and dissagreements. Well done.

If you have a valid reason to enforce the 2 month delay due to your own business suffering, well thats what the agreement is there for, so you can prepare and work around the disruption. Again, absolutely spot on.

If however it wouldnt make a jot of difference between starting asap and 2 months time and you decide just to make them wait. Thats wrong and petty. Only you know the real answer but from my perspective i would 100% prefer to deal with someone like you who wants everything correct.

So two month from now will be August. Do you not want to sit outside in August?

Have you considered the cost of renting alternative accommodation for your appointments? You could ask your neighbour to cover these costs.

I don’t understand how having more notice will affect your earnings… You have clients booked already who may want to rearrange for a quieter time. Even if you wait two months, there will still be noise affecting your appointments, so you won’t be able to arrange appointments then.

Do you have insurance which might cover you in the event that your premises is unusable. If so, offer for your neighbour to pay the excess on any claim and a percentage of next years premium to account for an increase.

it does seem that you just don’t want building work near you throughout the summer. It will still be summertime if the6 have to wait two months. It seems you are possibly causing friction where it is unnecessary.

Once you and your other neighbours accept that they have the right to carry out these alterations, you will feel much better about it.

I worked from home when we had our extension done. I wore noise cancelling headphones and listened to lots of music. In Teams meetings I was incredibly impressed with the noise cancelling ability -- colleagues couldn't hear a thing even when I chaired a meeting with a mini-digger wielding a hydraulic breaker to smash up a concrete slab in the next room.

There's no reason you should have to do that though and you're within your rights to insist on the Party Wall Act being followed. The main reason to waive these rights would be to maintain good relations with the neighbours, but that needs to be weighed against the inconvenience and harm to your work that starting now would bring.

Could you compromise and agree to 1 month ? That way you can still see your clients that are booked in and have plenty of time to discuss the noise with any clients that are already booked for the following month.

Don't sign it for two months. Tell them it's with your attorneys.