To think that Lucy Letby will get a new trial?

[NameChangeMay2026]

The previous thread on Letby is almost full. Posting here for traffic.

If we have any lawyers here, what do you think the likelihood is of Letby getting a new trial? I'm a layperson, but I'm going to guess that she will get one. It seems that many, many rebuttals have appeared since her conviction.

YABU - she will not get a new trial. The case is settled.
YANBU - the new evidence/discussion is compelling and she will probably get a re-trial.

I've been mainly convinced of her guilt, but I have started reading the free Private Eye series on the case by Phil Hammond. Now I don't know what to think. Here's the series, if anyone wants to read it. https://www.private-eye.co.uk/special-reports/lucy-letby

Yes Dr Marnerides also said from his experience, the minimum force required 'would be of the magnitude of forces generated from a baby jumping on a trampoline and falling'

But yet no suggestion at all about what LL could have possibly done that would be the equivalent force of that.

Thank you!! I have written similar posts several times over on various threads about Lucy Letby, as it was the emotive phrase "force of a car crash" that finally made me look into the case. People get very squeamish when you ask "how the heck did LL manage that without any other injuries occurring?" A quick Google of the size and position of a neonates liver underlines how implausible an inflicted injury with no other signs is, especially in a hospital setting. While it is a distasteful subject in some respects, from a legal perspective a plausible mechanism should have been included, not just "well she was there so she must have done something".

You need to stop treating everything the expert panel say as gospel-No definitive, legally established verdict exists proving that Dr. Stephen Brearey pierced a baby's liver

I’m not sure what ‘like a road accident’ actually means - it wasn’t one so it wasn’t like a road accident. Nothing that could happen in a neonate unit could be like one - no speeding vehicle, no slamming on of breaks, no forceful collision, no hitting a windscreen etc. The only thing that could be comparable would be throwing a baby at a wall - but that was not the claim.

I assume he's trying to explain to people how severe the injury was and that he's only seen it in those type of injuries-which makes sense. What do you want him to say if that's literally his experience? He can't compare it to anything else but traumatic accidents and caregiver harm. Because it was harm. Why do you think throwing a baby at a wall is the only thing comparable?

Because we're talking about forces generated by speed / velocity and often related to impact. Which are implausible to achieve in the setting described without physically doing something involving removing baby from its cot and incurring other injuries.

@MistressoftheDarkSide he also said harm by caregivers though. You don't think if someone punches a baby in the liver or uses an implement to stab them that isn't an impact injury?

He said from his experience, the minimum force required 'would be of the magnitude of forces generated from a baby jumping on a trampoline and falling'

How in the ever loving fuck would she be able to do either of those things without leaving any visible signs with the forces allegedly required and mentioned? Have you even looked up the basic anatomy after the dozens of times I've brought it up on various threads?

@MistressoftheDarkSide I know you're fixated on how she'd manage to do it-I have no idea, I'm not a doctor or pathologist. However everything else has been ruled out. The absence of seeing this in natural causes, CPR etc. and only seeing it in deliberate harm or horrific accidents says it all. Perhaps she knew how to not cause external signs being a nurse and all, or it was something else she did than those examples.

During the trial of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby, medical experts testified that severe internal trauma can occur without any external skin bruising or surface marks

The internal liver injuries were compared to those seen in high-velocity car crashes. In such impacts, the force transfers internally, causing vital organs to tear or bleed without bruising the skin

The "Peach" Analogy: During cross-examination, an expert likened it to throwing a closed container with a peach inside. While the box remains completely unmarked on the outside, the peach inside can be severely bruised and damaged. 1]

Protected Location: Because the liver sits deep beneath the protective rib cage, blunt force trauma can heavily damage the organ without leaving a mark on the abdominal wall. 1]

Just a few explanations. You don't want to believe it that's fine, but experts have testified it's very possible.

How can you say birth trauma (or any other possible cause) has been ruled out?

ChatGPT / AI has used a Reddit thread instead of testimony from the trial there.

@MistressoftheDarkSide is referring to a high velocity incident of the "peach in a basket" type, and asking how this could be achieved. The analogy wasn't used in court at all. It supports her argument.

The quality of material AI has produced for this thread would certainly put me off using it

Firefly1987
I know you're fixated on how she'd manage to do it-I have no idea

If she deliberately caused this amount of damage then their must be some evidence somewhere otherwise its just another theory.

Following.

Pointless @Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain . This thread has 12 usable posts left in it.

Coming from someone who treats the bad science of the prosecution as biblical this is ironic. I have never said Brearey pierced the baby’s liver, however that he pierced the baby somewhere is indisputable as it’s in the medical notes.

What kind of car accident has he seen where a baby’s liver is injured and nowhere else. And as it wasn’t a car accident, he does need to delineate the means by which this trauma was inflicted, which he fails to do.

Liver injuries in car crashes are particular to the blunt force of a steering wheel or seatbelt. How would you reproduce that on a baby in a unit? And how could you possibly rule out birth trauma?

I couldn’t think of anything to say. And I’ve commented before anyway. Lots to work through.

Very true on both counts.

I think the discussion has moved over to https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5540228-aibu-to-suggest-the-letby-trial-shows-madness-of-uk-legal-system , @Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain