Inheritance - someone has been taking money out of the estate before division

[Natsku]

DD has inherited a share in her great-grandparents estate because her dad and his mum are already dead so she inherits their share. The great-grandparents died years ago but the estate has not been divided yet, not entirely sure why but at least part of the reason is because there's disagreement over the value of the cottage that is part of it. DD is under 18 so I am legally obliged to ensure she gets her fair share so I cannot agree to an undervalued division and that division has to be approved by the authorities (we're not in the UK, I don't fully understand the legalities here but enough to know this) so I have to agree with those parties insisting on a more recent valuation of the cottage rather than the value from over 20 years ago, which one family member is insisting the division split is based on. This family member has sole use of the cottage (but also responsibility for its maintenance) and has the estate cash funds in a bank account in his control. We asked for bank statements for that account and they show that he has been taking large amounts of money out of the account. Some large amounts have been transferred to other family members that are due shares in the inheritance so it looks like he's been giving them their shares early, even though the estate hasn't been distributed yet, and other transfers are to his own personal account, some of which he claims are so he could pay bills related to the cottage, others he hasn't written an explanation. There's a lot less money left in the account now.

I'm fed up of all the hassle of this, been trying to sort it out for 8 years now (since DD's dad died and I found out about it all), DD's dad died with a lot of debt that needs to be paid out of that money before DD can see any of it and I just want it to be over but it also seems to be that it can't be legal what he's done and he's surely cheating DD out of her rightful share so maybe its time to report him to the police?

I'm going to ask the legal aid english language helpline when its next open. Don't know what the police can do during investigation, only one way to find out I suppose.
Looking at the screenshots of the bank statements it seems the estate money has been put into a personal account belonging to the one that is taking the money (which I think also might be legally dodgy in itself, even if he wasn't taking the money), so he's actually just transferring between his own accounts so even if the bank were willing to help I don't think they could stop transfers within his own set of accounts.

money is the root of all evil

To be honest Mumsnet opinions are not going to help with Finish inheritance law

@Yetanotherone12 nails it .
The process is flawed and the executor can ( and often does) steal whatever they like .
No checks .
Onus on beneficiaries to spend money chasing assets .
And if they've already been squirreled away good luck with that.

That's true, but I guess I'm asking more if I would be a bad person to report this to the police and potentially blow up the family? Its not my family so it won't affect me but it will affect DD's aunt who is a nice person who has always been kind to me.

Do you have proof that the executor has committed a crime?

if not the police will refer you to civil court. They will only investigate if you have documentation.

again, in England.

It wouldn’t be legal in the UK but sounds as if you are not in the UK. Could you consult a local lawyer?

Here in the UK duties must be paid on any deceased estate valued at £375k or over. Do you know if duties have been paid? I note that the threshold is much lower in Finland at over €20k. There is also a further percentage payable by beneficiaries; Tax Class 1 is for direct family line such as spouses, children, parents, and registered partners ranging from 7% to 19%. Tax class 2 is other relatives and unrelated persons at 19% to 33%.
If this relative is skimming big chunks out of an estate that hasn't paid out to its beneficiaries, this sounds like could be very dodgy from a tax point of view.

I guessed from your post it would be Finland from the way the estate was divided and the existence of a family cottage.

There is an English translation of the Finnish Code of Inheritance here (click Englanti). Sorry I don't know if you read Finnish. The English is a bit clunky but one key bit is that you have 10 years from the date of the death to enforce the rights of a beneficiary as there is a statute of limitations (chapter 16) so you do need to do something about it soon. It looks as though you can take the administrator of the estate to court but I'm not sure how you go about doing that. That looks as though it's a civil thing rather than a criminal police matter.

When my ex received money from a Finnish estate, the document stating what all the heirs got (perinnönjakokirja) included a calculation where one uncle had been lent money out of his share in advance so he didn't get as much. It was all very strictly mathematical. Finnish inheritance law is very different from ours and everything is supposed to be divided equally between direct descendants so ignore posters referring to how it works here.

I do recall there's a thing where all the heirs can get together and decide to distribute the estate differently. Possibly that is what some of your fellow beneficiaries are trying to get you to do? But it only works if everyone agrees.

Good luck. I hope you can find some (cheap) Finnish legal advice.

Sorry link didn't work. Google: Finlex perintökaari 40/1965 Englanti.

No, you would not be a bad person. You would be a good mother, looking out for her daughter’s best interests.

I'm not sure, I have proof (that he has sent himself) of him taking money out of the accounts, some of which he has written notes next to saying they were for paying certain bills e.g. insurance on the cottage, bin collection etc. he will also probably claim some was spent on repairs to the cottage. But considering how much has been taken (about 5/6ths of what originally went into the account) I think surely it must be the crime of embezzlement.

Inheritance tax isn't paid until the estate has been divided (which is apparently one reason it can takes ages for estates to be divided, because there's not enough cash to pay the taxes I suppose so would need to sell property and that can get complicated) so yeah this could be depriving the state of taxes maybe. I think the threshold is higher for DD because she is underage

I think that might be what that one person is trying to do but because DD is underage we're not even allowed to all agree on a different settlement, its very strictly controlled when children inherit, to protect them.

You might have some luck going to a university law clinic- supervised students take on cases to get some experience. I know Uni of Helsinki has one (and possibly Uni of Lapland)

There is also this service- I know a few people who have found this a useful starting point if you can get to one of the cities mentioned:
https://asianajajat.fi/en/legal-advice/free-legal-advice-clinics/

How much would your DD be giving up if you just walked away?

The love of money is the root of all evil

Oh thanks, I'd never heard of that service before. One of the cities isn't too far away from me.

Hard to say as it depends what the final value of the estate would be but anywhere from a few thousand euros to maybe 20 thousand. But I can't walk away in any case, not legally allowed to refuse an inheritance on behalf of a minor (also a whole lot of other things I'm not legally allowed to do, or legally obliged to do as soon as an inheritance appears, including accounting for every cent of her money every year. Which reminds me, haven't done it this year yet)

Recently been through this with my Dad's death. Before probate is granted, it should not be possible for money from the estate to be used at all. Any money gained from the estate, belongs to the estate and should be going to the solicitor for holding until probate is granted. The member of the family who is using the money is doing so illegally.

My darling dad had had cancer for a few years prior to his death, and had let some rather massive issues emerge with the house (rising damp, a flat roof going past the point of repair to need replacing, for example) While we were having to look after the house prior to probate, I wanted to use some of the money from the sale of my dad's stamp collection to fix the issues with the house, so we could put in on the market just before probate was granted so we were ready to actually sell soon after.

The solicitor said that they had to keep all the money until probate was granted and I could not access it. No one should have been able to touch ANY proceeds from the estate until probabate was granted. If one person had needed to spend out on upkeep to the deceased assets, they would be able to keep records of their spending, and have that back prior to assests being divided:

So if Jim died wishing his daughter Jenny and his son John to divide his inheritance equally, but Jenny spent £5,000 pounds on upkeeping his house before probate, when his house and assets had all sold for £25,000, Jenny could take £5,000 first and then her and John get £10,000 each, making £15,000 for Jenny and £10,000 for John instead of the whole £25,000 being split as £12,500 each. However Jenny couldn't take the £5,000 out as she spent it in bits before probate.

If you're sure he has misappropriated funds I would go straight to the police.

It's free and they can take action quickly.

I wouldn't dawdle whilst he spends the rest...

you said you don’t qualify for legal aid but will it be your daughter that would or would not qualify as it’s her inheritance? or is she too young and that’s why it’s you? i wonder if the finish lawyers would help her under thwir legal aid scheme?

When I had the lawyer before via legal aid it was based on my income but another poster has linked to a place I can get free legal advice which I'm sure will help, if me and the other two family members that are in agreement don't just decide to share the costs of a lawyer (I reckon I can afford one third of the cost of legal fees but not the entire costs. I suppose technically I could take the costs out of the inheritance but I don't want to do that to DD, she'll need that money)

estate assets are only held by a solicitor if they are the executor.

If say your brother was executor then all the money would be given to him. It does not necessarily need probate- many banks will release large amounts (50k in some cases) to the executor on production of the will, without probate.

he then holds all the money. Again as an example say your dad had 40k in two savings accounts, you would not know about them unless he disclosed them to you, and he could transfer all that money into his own accounts without you ever knowing about them.

like I said, we have evidence that money was taken from the deceaseds accounts, with no probate, and used for personal purchases. Police will not charge.

In our case all the estate assets were held by the solicitor until probate was granted. Literally anything. My aunt was executor, and no money was given to her until probate was granted. Literally, the solicitors were the only people with access to any money until probate was granted. Even if we wanted his money to upkeep his house, which we were responsible for from the day of his death, we could not use money of his, or from the sale of anything of his, until probate was granted.