Mum has new boyfriend, lost interest in kids

[SqueakyPuffskein]

NC, just wanted a discussion on this. I don't want or have kids (broody hormone absent) but I find it interesting from a biological POV.

Single mum adores kid -> exciting new man appears -> maternal care hormones go poof -> kid is now annoying little pest, in the way -> neglect, abuse, abandonment, murder.

There have been countless examples of this phenomenon in the news, threads on here, and I've known a few cases in real life (my own mum was one, dumped me on other relatives so she could move away chasing men. It was much better than living with her, thankfully).

I'm curious if there's a name for it, or any research done? If not, why not? I know it's taboo to think about mothers not adoring their children, or that 'magical bond' disappearing and things turning sour. But it does happen and we need to understand how, and how to intervene effectively before harm is done.

Do you think there's any way to get the maternal love back, after the whirlwind romance has calmed/ended? That's what I find most chilling: once the hormones have faded, they never seem to return later. But I'd be interested to hear anyone's stories of mothers 'coming out the other side' and caring about their kids again.

And no, absolutely not the case for my mother.

This intrigues me too OP!

Especially because they were doting, loving and dedicated mothers beforehand.

It's different to those who were neglectful and resentful from the birth of their kids. These ones are seemingly the opposite. Like a switch suddenly flicked out of nowhere.

I'd love for there to be a deep interview with several of them to properly ask the questions to gain some kinda understanding.

Glad to hear that you got past it and broke the cycle! I bet you're a wonderful mother now, and that experience helped drive you.

I feel the same about my parents, they were a bit fucked-up and not in good situations. Don't blame them for pissing off in search of something better. My mum is apparently happy with her new family, and I'm not bothered about it all. Just really grateful that other relatives took me in and gave me a much better upbringing after years of her neglect/chaos.

Someone gets it! Precisely. I have not heard of any scientists/psychologists/other people talking about it though, or wanting to research it. Strange, considering there are so many high-profile criminal cases that start this way.

I think in a lot of these cases they are desperately needy, damaged women who will do anything to feel loved - and that's why they had children in the first place. Lots of women desperate to feel valued and loved think that children will be the ideal solution, as they will give them unconditional love. But it's actually the parent who is supposed to love unconditionally. Very little babies can't argue back and are entirely dependent, but children are often hard work, ungrateful, rude to their parents (and all of that is entirely developmentally normal and appropriate). You also get a lot of positive attention from other people when pregnant or with a tiny baby that fades away as the child becomes older. So I think these women become disillusioned with the idea that the children will fix them and make them feel wanted and special, but still have that desperate need for that and so go back to trying to get that attention and validation from men - and at that point the children are just in the way.

Self-centred, is that not what it's called? I know a few mothers who have put their kids at the bottom of their pile.
I was a sp for many years and yes I would've liked the company of a man, many a night but I chose to put them at the top of my pile.
Some people are just shit mothers

Absolutely true. You explain it very well. I was probably wrong to put it all down to hormones; there's a massive amount of social pressure and individual issues going on too.

Women can and are just as bad as men. Who lets these evil men who abuse the kids into the lives. The mothers.

Some people are certainly like that. But in the cases I'm thinking about, it's more like the mum is devoted and suddenly 'a switch has flipped' (as someone else neatly described it) and she can't stand the kids any more. It's strange and concerning to people who know her, and coincides with new man appearing. Is that what happened with the selfish mums you know?

That’s desperately sad, but so true. I could never imagine being like this with my dd.

I think it’s likely related to a personality disorder and/or attachment issues. Basically, women who are so dysfunctional and broken that they will throw away real unconditional love for the highs and lows, because drama feels familiar and safer than proper safe love of a child.

It’s not the same because I was an adult (though if my mum had dated when I was a child, I do wonder what might have happened to me), but my mum met a man who is a convicted paedophile (he sexually abused his daughter). Basically, she had the choice of this loser or a relationship with me and her grandchildren (I’m her only child). I was an adult, but she gladly chose him and walked away from her whole family. Haven’t seen her in over 6 years. I don’t even know where she lives anymore.

It blows my mind. But she had a traumatic childhood with a narcissist brother (like a proper narcissist) who terrorised the family and her whole self worth is based on pandering to men to keep the peace. She saw a man with a lot of drama around him who needed saving and running towards that and throwing away her family probably felt really familiar. It’s what she’s done her whole life. No thought for the children left in her wake.

Isn't this just bog standard human variability?

I think you've focused a bit too much on hormones. The bonding/ cuddle hormone is oxytocin and is both male and female. In this case the female would also get an oxytocin boost from the new male.

Prolactin is mainly involved in lactation.

Imo it's just some people being damaged themselves, selfish, suffering with poor mental health, any combination of the above.

Some people are feckless shits who abandon their children. Some are women. More are men. Society is more shocked than women do it- but maybe we shouldn't be?

I can't remember the author (male!) who said it but it went along the lines of "some women are more woman than mother" and it rings true I think. Their "womaness" in a sexual way is more likely to lead them into situations with men that can result in children, but they won't necessarily have the supposedly associated mothering instinct?

My mum has done this in her 50s. Binned off all of her previously close sort of grown up children to shack up with a younger man. And yes she is a narcissist but no one saw that shit coming.

Permanently damaging relationships with her children for what will inevitably fizzle out with a fucking deadbeat.

A very thoughtful post, thank you for sharing. Sorry your mum turned her back, hope you and your kids are doing OK.

There's definitely a lot going on with these women - it just doesn't become outwardly visible until something triggers it, like new romance - and seeking explanations for their actions does not mean we're excusing them. It's important and helpful to understand why people are the way they are, even if terrible.

It’s perhaps not as dramatic but lots of women ditch their friends when they meet a new man - perhaps that has happened to you op? Being with the man and spending all their time and energy with the man becomes the most important thing in their lives. It makes sense to me that that way of being would also happen with some women where their children are concerned too. I’d imagine to answer the question if it is similar then when the relationship breaks down then the mother would have the time and energy for her children but would drop them again when the next man comes along.

Many/ most women are socialised to put men first and that having and keeping a man is the most important thing in a woman’s life. Lots of women on here say they love their husband more than their dc which is nuts to me but there you go.

Jesus, that's a hideously misogynistic quote.

Wow, isn't that usually a male thing to do? Quite unusual, so sorry for your family.

Is he a 'bad boy' type by any chance? Or more fun/crazy/challenging rather than normal/stable? They seem to be over-represented in these sorts of cases.

I wasn't thinking about narcissism, but so many people have mentioned it now, I wonder if it might be relevant.

I think some of it is hormones, or something like it - and again some damaged people are much more controlled by this. The analogy a PP makes to ditching your friends when you have a new bf is a good one. I really did find having a baby was, in some ways, like the early, infatuated stages of a relationship - I was obsessed, wanted to talk about them constantly, wanted to be with them and saw anything without them as second best. Like a relationship, that doesn't last forever, but what comes next is better: deeper, truer, more lasting. But some people get quite addicted to that initial 'high', which you can only really keep getting by moving onto a new obsession - which, for the mothers you describe, might be why they transfer all the attention and care of what seems like devoted motherhood to a new boyfriend with alarming ease.

I cam imagine domestic abuse plays a role - coercive control etc It can also make parenting much harder. The abusive man may control money, isolate the family, stop routines, prevent appointments, or make the other parent feel constantly stressed or frightened. Then things like school attendance, meals, sleep, hygiene, supervision and emotional support. It's really hard to keep an abusive man's needs met alongside the kids', and the one with more power wins. I'm pretty sure the child neglect/abandoned cases will have an abusive man in common! Unfortunately they often strike when they see vulnerable woman, such as a single mother etc

Thank you for that insight into motherhood, really interesting. This is why I enjoy reading MN.

I was under the impression that there's a single, powerful 'maternal feeling' that appears some time after birth, and seems to last forever, helping with motivation to raise the child, and makes you still fret about them after they've grown.

(That's how it appears in animals too. Birds for example, all of their incubation and chick rearing instincts are driven by prolactin alone, all the way til fledging. So I assume it's one continuous feeling for them)

But you describe a different, deeper sort of love forming after an initial infatuation. First time I've heard about that. Your theory could explain a lot.

Really great, thoughtful answers I've seen on this thread! I think it might be similar to a PP, about the difference between parent-child unconditional love and romantic love. A child is supposed to love a parent and vice versa, there's no choosing. But someone choosing to love you, choosing you, is more validating and intoxicating to the ego. Contrasted with that ego feeding is the sometimes hard slog of parenting which makes the mother want to move more towards the new relationship.

There could also be a biological component. In earlier civilisations, before we knew that sperm was involved in making babies, there wasn't necessarily monogamy. The women and men would have sex for pleasure, and women would miraculously produce babies every so often. The children would be raised mostly by elders of the village, as working age men and women both had to work to sustain the village. Children knew who their mum was and their mum's familial line, but the mum might not be around all day, and they would not know who their dad was. IThe kids were literally raised by the village! So there wasn't so much pressure to be 'maternal' as such. We can see this in great ape species like gorillas, where it is just assumed that the 'alpha' male of the community is the father of all the children (whether factually true or not) and so he takes a fatherly approach to all the children.

I never actually clarified my point after that essay 🤣 but just to say, there is a strong societal expectation that women will be maternal and want monogamy, which might be at odds with how we are wired, and that creates situations in which mothers who might have been great as part of a village raising children and havinf lots of sex are now seen as an affront to motherhood.

Good point. A lot of these cases do seem to involve love-bombing and controlling men. It hadn't really occured to me that they make it physically harder to focus on kids too. I thought it was mainly emotional pressure/desire that changed the mums' minds.

This is why discussion with mums is good - not being one, I don't know what it's like day-to-day. Thank you for bringing it up.

Thanks for your posts. Wow, you make a great point about evolution there! I've always ranted that modern society is messed-up, isolating mothers and pressuring them to devote their entire lives to their kids. Now it's leading to helicopter parents, anxiety, mums feeling guilty for wanting a 5 minute break...

But maybe staying intensely focused on one's kids for 18+ yrs is an unnatural expectation in the first place? We are meant to share the duty in tribes, so it's normal for mums' interest to become less intense after a while, or when attracted to a new man. Only in our modern world, where family aren't around/able to take the kids, is it dangerous.