To think that Children of the Blitz should be required viewing in these ridiculous times?

[GloiredeDijon]

I watched Children of the Blitz on bbc iplayer and I really think that the swathes of younger people who apparently lack the slightest bit of resilience and who spend their days in a lather of self diagnosis and neurosis need to watch it too.

I am old enough to have had parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles who lived through the war but am aware that we are fast losing this fabulously stoic generation and many of our younger people have alarmingly little knowledge of the history of their country.

Even having heard my mum’s stories about being bombed out, being evacuated, doodlebugs and rationing this wonderful programme was an eye opener.

I genuinely think young people need to hear, in a very human way, about the things their elders lived through and went on to lead productive and happy lives contributing to society rather than expecting the world to run around their perceived needs.

I’m certainly not saying that war is the only problem which warrants feeling anxious, nor that genuinely diagnosed mental health problems don’t need treatment but this programme is a very positive illustration of the ability of humans to overcome and not just survive but thrive.

All the participants in this documentary were fabulous human beings and should be our role models instead some idiot on instagram self diagnosing and crying into the camera for attention.

I'm early Gen X From the past I remember:

We had no central heating.

Single paned glass that got wringing wet in winter, damp in the walls.

Freezing cold pipes that froze solid so that there was no water.

I might be the last generation to remember a standing water pump/tap being in use for people in the street to collect when water ran out.

We used to buy the propane gas from a man who would pass by on the street with a truck.

My parents could only afford to heat one room at a time and I had to wash in a big metal basin gas heater.

Having to sometimes put cardboard in my shoes because the soles were worn down.

But also:

We could play as children outside all day far into the evening and go in and out of neighbours houses with your friends with no one worried about us.

Your neighbours knew who you were, and who your parents were (and could complain to) and they talked to you like normal human beings and would sometimes invite you in for a sandwich and cake.

It was rude to pass someone and not say good morning to them. Most people said good morning

If I got locked out for some reason, no probs. Go to almost any neighbour on the street and sit it out till mum or dad comes back.

We walked to school and went to parks, libraries, swimming and took buses by ourselves. No anxiety about being attacked.

You ran out of something you pop across to a neighbour and next time you shop, you give it back.

You knew the local shopkeepers. If you ran out of money and payday was next week,they would let you take a few things until you could pay it back. Cheques were accepted in supermarkets so same principle, you could buy stuff before it cleared

We went to church most Sundays. You felt part of a community and were told about your responsibility to a higher authority and your neighbours. You often saw your neighbours and their families at the church. You knew the vicar/priest

Social security was far more accessible. It was possible to get emergency funds on the day. You'd have to wait around in the office for hours but you could get it.

There were community laundries on Estates. Even in private laundries if you had money you could drop off your washing, pay the laundress, go shopping and come and pick it up again all done and folded.

Informal childcare was common. Many women stayed at home. You could ask a neighbour or a family friend to have your child for you without paying your entire salary. One-to-one child care was more common.

Sundays were genuine days of rest. The shops were not open. There weren't as many cars on the road so it was relatively peaceful (and dull and dragging) but you could spend family time.

Entertainment had a place, there were only three TV channels then 4.

Local charity was better. Youth centres and church funded outings were more plentiful.

You could leave school at 16 and get a job. You could walk into a business premises and ask for work, speak to a supervisor and be given a chance. Working your way up from a runner/tea maker/dogsbody in even elite professions was common. You did not need a degree.

Grants were given for higher education. My aunt has 2 degrees and didn't pay a penny for either.

Social housing was more plentiful.

There's a lot more that made for a less anxiety prone society. Even in the midst of hardships, it was often a shared experience. Today it's much, much more individualised. It's the result of the hyper individualised pull your own socks up mentality. The pace of life has also gotten much faster. Community has mostly gone from cities.

I watched my children apply for jobs. It's absolutely shit. Three, even four, stages of job interview, plus psychometric or maths and English testing. Having to sometimes travel so far they needed to use travel lodge overnight just to attend the 'group task observation testing' round of the interview process, getting assessed on their performance...and still not getting the job and that's with university degrees also. One of mine had a first and it still took her 2 years to get a job in her field at graduate level, and she still cannot afford to leave home and rent because there are no social housing for young people and private rents are just not in the realm of reality in our area.

That was not my experience after leaving school at all.

Were being really shitty to Gen Z. I really feel for them. Then they have to be punched down on and have to hear about how non-resilient they are.

Were being really shitty to Gen Z. I really feel for them. Then they have to be punched down on and have to hear about how non-resilient they are.

Where does it come from? Why is there so much bitterness towards the young?

The olds have been wailing about the young since that guy ordered the rude children to be eaten by bears in the bible and also dince Socrates. So twas ever thus. But, seriously, look at sailing to byzantium? Yeats is just annoyed the old get no respect.

Sailing to Byzantium

W. B. Yeats
1865 –
1939
That is no country for old men. The young
In one another’s arms, birds in the trees
—Those dying generations—at their song,
The salmon-falls, the mackerel-crowded seas,
Fish, flesh, or fowl, commend all summer long
Whatever is begotten, born, and dies.
Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unageing intellect.
An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul clap its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress,
Nor is there singing school but studying
Monuments of its own magnificence;
And therefore I have sailed the seas and come
To the holy city of Byzantium.
O sages standing in God’s holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.
Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is; and gather me
Into the artifice of eternity.
Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come.

I don’t think anyone is romanticising the war or evacuation, more pointing out that the result should have been a traumatised generation unable to work or raise a family (look at how many are not working for MH today), yet somehow it didn’t.

I’m certain they had a ton of bottled up trauma but ultimately the country continued to be successful as necessity meant they HAD to work, had to marry in many cases, and had to move on. Wallowing was not a choice. And given the Silent Generation are the most respected in the country, and among the most pragmatic, optimistic and balanced people I’ve ever had the privilege of knowing, did that neccessity help them? Are we doing it wrong today by encouraging too much introspection and ‘self care’?

‘twas ever thus, I believe.

An older Gen Z friend was complaining to me about how her generation is characterised and was surprised to hear that Gen X got many of the same criticisms back in the day. She was amazed to hear that they called us the “slacker generation”! We compared notes and a lot of the things people say/said were almost exactly the same.

(Edited to clarify that I was empathising with her, not telling her to get over it because Gen X had it too 😂)

They were traumatized though . Contemporary accounts, language like shell shock, neurotic, anxious, and suicidal describe this phenomenon. My great grandmother would be periodically institutionalized. People emigrated to escspe. Drank to escape. Abandoned children and wives to escape.

So is that it? Your measure of success is marriage, children, work? Later marriage or no marriage for this current generation is the sign of their lack of fitness? Is it the two parent marriages, difficulty of divorce, lack of contraception, illegal abortion that you are mourning? The magdalene laundries? Because you need to include them.

this is completely ahistorical and out of context. 1st of all the masses of male deaths i 1st and 2nd world war created a glut of single women or women who married defensively as they were thrown out of the workforce and could no longer earn wartime wages. 2nd if all the rising welfare state made childrearing snd housing more available while the postwar economic boom also lifted many while currently brexit has crushed britain.

Haven't seen it but I'm not sure about the stoic thing. Many incredibly brave people showed amazing resilience but I've no doubt many would if it happened again now. However i believe people suffered much more than we think. The UK media and gov was a propaganda machine showing only one version of brave strong Britons. This is just my speculation. I suspect many 'brave' young men became traumatised adults who drank heavily, many 'resilient' children became emotionally disregulated and co dependent as adults, many 'strong' women became cold and distant etc etc. War damages much more than one generation.

Great post @TightlyLacedCorset. I relate so much

Strong agree @GloiredeDijon

My parents lived through the war and the rationing and shortages which continued into the 1950s. My father lost his father in the war. I couldn’t see the effect of this throughout his life.

My other grandfather fought in both wars.

i too have wondered about the claims made for the difficulties of young people today in comparison with the experiences and resilience of my parents and grandparents. And I despair that one in five young people is not in work or education and is instead on benefits. I’ll be working till I’m 70 and hopefully beyond that age, goddess willing. Young people have so much to play for - this world is rich in opportunities.

I wish they were more like my grandfathers, both of whom treated their circumstances as adventures, opportunities, and the chance to serve others.

Does anyone actually think watching a documentary is going to teach resilience?

Resilience is taught through appropriate support through difficulties, where a child sees and feel how they can develop on from mistakes and difficult situations. Resilience, like emotional regulation and many other things people complain no young adult has, comes through supported experience.

Documents and books can be used to help discuss the topic, but in themselves aren't going to teach those skills and I think it's unreasonable to treat both young people like they just need a documentary or those who went through WW2 like a tool to dismiss young people with by twisting their experiences. They weren't fabulously stoic, there was a lot of self-medicating going on.

People have always committed suicide and been institutionalised. Better 5% of the population is very unhappy, and 95% are content, than all being miserable together.

I don't think 95% of people were content during WW2 - or ever.

Deaths by suicide during the war was largely around conscripts on all sides where refusal would also have meant death, and in some places, it was known policy to not help anyone attempting suicide. Germany was particularly vocal on that, at times someone could be killed for helping someone else.

The cases of deaths by suicide spiked severely near the end of the war across Europe. The writings and reports link it strongly linked to fear, not misery.

Simplifying suicide to being 'very unhappy' or miserable shows a great and risky misunderstanding - there are many often interlinked causes to cause a death by suicide.

You can be content and still believe the world or your loved ones would be better off without you or that death is the best option available. In fact, signs of sudden raised contentment is linked to a significantly higher likelihood of suicide.

the consequences of intergenerational trauma.
Is this the latest 'therapy speak' for the phenomenon previously known as life ??

If by 'latest' you mean a concept that's been used since the 1960s, which - as a pp said - was often from studying those who went through WW2 and how their reaction to what they went through was passed onto their children who never experienced the war. We've had studies involving the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, Blitz survivors and more that continue to show certain changes caused by such situations down to an epigenetic level.

We even have animal studies showing high stress to the point of trauma can be passed down sometimes several generations reacting to something that they've never experienced.

We have all this, but when we try to apply that understanding to people today, it gets dismissed as 'therapy speak'. Yes, horrific experiences has always been part of life, but understanding a part of why thing have developed as they have.

more pointing out that the result should have been a traumatised generation unable to work or raise a family (look at how many are not working for MH today), yet somehow it didn’t.

Except it did - those who didn't largely died off due to the consequences of homelessness, addiction, being institutionalised and more before we started calling them the 'Silent Generation' or had much respect & largely been erased because it fits the narrative better if we act like people just moved on after the war.

There was also a lot of proactive support to get returning men into work and people into homes after World War 2 after the horrible consequences of mass unemployment and homelessness after World War 1. Governments and businesses worked together on that as part of trying to rebuild stability. That was a big part of the 'somehow'.

That kind of support for young people has been gutted over the last couple of decades, and for young people who've been the victims of severe violence, the help today is basically giving them pills until the side effects get too much & then telling them to take less.

Yes, my measure of success is managing to really live a life outside of your trauma, not living in it and in/out of various therapies and facilities for life. My measure of success is being able to make a contribution despite the odds. They did it, so well done to them.

Let’s not pretend their entire generation were alcoholics and mentally unstable because they weren’t. They were the strongest, calmest people I have ever met.

But you didn’t meet all of them. Your post is the creation of the “compositional fallacy ”—you basically ignore contrary evidence and simply prefer to believe your mere acquaintance and the carefully managed image of popular figures is the reality.

Ok so where is your study proving the Silent Generation is less stable than Gen Z?

Yes, my measure of success is managing to really live a life outside of your trauma, not living in it and in/out of various therapies and facilities for life

That is so deeply offensive I don’t even know where to begin.

Would you apply the same metric to physical illness/accident recovery?

What a ridiculous question. You know no such thing exists either way, just for starters because there is no set definition of the Silent Gen., Gen Z or even “stable”.

You could read literature, watch movies, go to graduate school and study child psychology and sociology. I have.

This “silent generation” fan has really just confused vague images of the late queen, royal and imperial propaganda, and cultural tropes around the war and its aftermath with reality. In fact the idea of British “stiff upper lip” and “Keep calm and carry on” etc… are all social constructs carefully pushed onto the population out of necessity. Calm, sober, hard working, C of E against loud/hysterical/ranting other Christian sects/jews/asians/carribean immigrants. Drill down and admit you don’t include in your vaunted silent generation the Irish, the Welsh, the poor/the windrush generation all of whom were considered troublemakers and unenglush. So race/class are embedded here in your assertions and assumptions.

The biggest clue that things were not okay for the Silent Generation was what they did after the war, which was vote in a socialist government for healthcare, housing, welfare because the suffering and the need of those who had survived the depression and a war told them it was necessary. They wanted a better society that depended less on class, on money, they voted for something far more radical and egalitarian. They knew what it was to suffer.

80 years later and people post romantic stuff about how good it was in the war and the sense of purpose. This is plain old rubbish, from people who were too young to understand much of horror and the desire for change. The war is reduced to scraps of patriotism, cheery propaganda moments and delightful memories, recycled in form that can be digested.

Are you saying voting for a socialist party makes you more likely to be mentally ill?

Really. You embarrass me and you by posting that

I’m watching it and highly recommend it. I agree that people need to watch it - not just young adults, but all adults. It is eye-opening about just how traumatic and painful the Blitz was, and very moving.

I don’t agree though that it’s a ‘very positive illustration of the ability of humans to overcome and not just survive but thrive’. The film’s interviewees said they didn’t feel they could add to their families’ unhappiness and just had to keep going, which sounds like surviving - rather than thriving - to me. The Guardian actually said this film shows the “blitz spirit” as a sort of psychological crisis management rather than a strength.

I haven’t seen this programme yet but my mum was a child of the Blitz and was evacuated. Unf it really affected her mentally and she had a ‘nervous breakdown’ after the war ended.
She didn’t get a proper education either as it was so disrupted during the war. I was always fascinated by her wartime tales but it sounded horrific.

It sounds to me like Grapthar is saying the Blitz generation voted in a post-war Socialist government because they’d endured so much pre-war and wartime suffering and they really craved a better, fairer life and society.

Not sure how that suggests voting for a Socialist party makes one more likely to be mentally ill?

I'm not sure if all posters on this thread have actually watched this program. Please, could you state if you have. I think some who have not seen it may have the wrong idea about its content.

Then after 2 terms, Labour were voted out, and the Tories were in power for 13 years. The silent generation were those born between 1928 and 1945. Voting age was 21, so the silent generation didn't vote the socialists in - none of them had the vote until 1949. It was the Great Generation who voted the Socialists in.