Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

It is absolutely artificial. He resigned purely to create this situation.

The rules were intended for genuine and unavoidable scenarios and while this is not technically against the rules, in the same way that we assumed we didn’t need a rule against convicted terrorists standing for elections, it’s only because no one saw them being stretched like this.

Fingers crossed then. It would be rich if he stepped down from being mayor and didn’t win a seat as MP. God I really hope so in return for imposing a leadership contest at a time when the uk needs it the least.

Yes, terrible in fact. He signed a letter in 2019 calling for self id (now quietly deleted apparently) and in a tv interview recently demonstrated that he neither understands nor respects the recent Supreme Court judgement.

Where can we find more information about this unwritten intention in the rules? Because it's one thing saying you think they should be changed, but you're going well beyond that here.

You read the rules with the view of a reasonable person. A rare creature in some circles.

And also bear in mind the impact and cost of additional by-elections. He’s clearly not that interested in representing the constituents he’s asking to elect him. He is just using them to further his career. I hope he loses.

You could join the Labour party and get a vote that way!

I can understand this point in principle but in practice I can't rally get myself tied up in a knot over it given that Andy Burnham is currently an elected Labour politician (albeit a Mayor not an MP) and has previously been an MP and a government minister.

It's not like they're parachuting in some complete rando, he's one of the highest profile Labour politicians in the country.

I can't imagine anyone's vote for Labour turned on whether Andy Burnham was or wasn't an MP.

Being a GM resident I could do without the extra costs of the mayoral election, but the expense is a different point from the intention of the rule writers.

It sounds from the reasonable person point like your source for the intention of the rule writers is just this is what you think, and there's no evidence anywhere about the intention of the people who created/last looked at the rules?

Can anyone imagine Rayner on the world stage. She attends an economic meeting and will be lost at what is going on. I suspect she tells Burnham to make her Deputy and she will back him.

Thing is…

ITS NOT A BLODDY GAME YOU IDIOTS!

There might be a deadline missed, but it's a good point. We've now established a norm in British politics where we change PM a lot. I'm not saying this is a good thing but it's clearly how things have been for the last decade. So anyone who wants a say in new PMs outside GEs might do well to join the governing party every time we change administration.

Andy Burnham is excellent on women's rights because trans women are women

It was actually Labour who repeatedly called for a GE when the Conservatives were playing musical chairs with PMs saying it was not democratic, so Labour are now being immensely hypocritical.

It is a huge problem with our system that a new PM can be put in place without a mandate for their policy proposals and implement whatever they like using a majority they have inherited which the electorate provided based on a different manifesto. That isn’t democratic in any meaningful way at all.

Our political system needs a total overhaul.

And Burnham is awful. He makes my skin crawl and he’s done nothing to show any kind of acumen making him worthy of the role of PM. We seem to be sinking lower and lower with the calibre of people in UK politics to the point where it is embarrassing that these people represent us internationally, as well as the mess successive Governments have made domestically.

Bring it on

I've always thought these political coups are undemocratic - I said the same about the succession of Tory PMs who weren't voted for by the electorate as well. And yes I'm fully aware that we vote for MPs on a constituency basis but most people go into a general election to vote for who they want to lead the country.

I voted for Labour, led by Keir Starmer. And I think that barring illness, death or criminal activity (and possibly some other specific circumstances such as calling a snap election) then PMs should be allowed to complete their term in office. It's utterly ridiculous that the most powerful position in the country has been reduced to little more than a popularity contest for the vainglorious.

I voted Labour in the last election because our conservative mp was a drunk and a joke. i liked the labour candidate and they have proven to be excellent. but would i vote labour again after this? no I wont 100% will not

there are so many people on mumsnet who have no idea what is happening out there and how many older people ex labour voters who actually bother to go out and vote will be voting reform. because quite frankly they are sick and tired of the shenanigans of the labour and conservative parties.

After what?

Your first paragraph indicates that you decided who to vote for based on their personal demeanor rather than the parties policies - but presumably you liked the policies that you 'excellent' Labour MP stood on?

If so, what is the 'after this' you are talking about?

Labour's policies haven't changed, you don't know who the new leader will be (if indeed there is one), or what their policies will be, so it can't be that

Is it that you wouldn't vote for them based on the accusation that Burnham is being parachuted in? Because if so I assume that you also wouldn't vote for the Tories after they parachuted Boris Johnson into both of his constituencies with no local links or Reform after Farage parachuted himself into Clacton?

Your assertion that Burnham is left wing, or that the Labour party as a whole is somehow left wing just shows how far the Overton window has shifted. I am resolutely centre left and the current Labour party policies, especially their budgets feel very centre right to me. I think Burnham will bring back decent social democratic centre left policies which history has proven, time and time again, work best for this country!

You’re right, they did call for a GE.

She's said no.

Thank you for taking the trouble to explain things to the hard of thinking. 👏

A lot of people would think so, I think. Enough to make them vote for Reform.

I think he's tempting fate and could up with nothing.

That's because we have a parliamentary, rather than a presidential system. The PM is merely "first among equals", ie the rest of the MPs in their parliamentary party.

If there were direct votes for PM in a parliamentary system, you could end up with a situation where a PM represented a party that didn't have a majority in parliament, and it would be fucking chaos. They'd appoint ministers who couldn't get a majority in any vote in the Commons.

You know he doesn't have to step down as Mayor to stand?

He could stand and remain as mayor if he loses.

Boris Johnson remained London Mayor for 12 months after he was parachuted in to the Tory safe seat elected to represent the good folks of Uxbridge and Ruislip for the 2015 general election.

None of those were questions @BloominNora Answer the questions!
These were the questions (for the hard of thinking)..
What exactly is Burnham’s plan regarding bond holders? Tell them to put the interest rate down? Take back control of the Bank of England?
I would really like to know what you think the plans are?

I did think that was suboptimal. For all the expense of another mayoral election, I won't want Burnham staying on if he's also an MP. They should both be full time jobs. NI MPs are formally barred from double jobbing now, and that's a good thing.

Perhaps, but Blair was just much more charismatic and likeable than Brown could ever hope to be. Unfortunately, voters respond to that. See also Farage, et al.

Who knows?

I'm your standard liberal leftie - I want PR and a return to the Single Market but I do think we need to have democratic consent first!

I woulf have liked these to be in the 2024 manifesto but they weren't and we shoudn't ignore that.