AIBU to move out of grammar area

[Wonderingwander]

We live in catchment for a grammar school but are not far from a non-grammar area with a well regarded state school.

We’ve been advised that DC1 is a good candidate for grammar and DC1 likes the idea of studying and applying (DC1 has no idea what grammar is like - I think they just like the idea of passing exam as confident in their own ability).

I have no idea if grammar would suit DC2 - I have a gut feeling that they might struggle with the exam and even if they didn’t, their character is totally different. But it really is too early to tell.

There isn’t much within walking distance where we currently live and whatever the results, they will need to get a bus to school and if DC outcomes are different, those buses will be in different directions.

if we moved to the non-grammar area we could have a house where DC could walk to school, we’d know they’d go to the same school and be part of a town / more of a community and we could walk into town.

AIBU to think about moving house (nothing is pushing us to move other than secondary school options)?! Especially when some people seem desperate for grammar places. We certainly wouldn’t get any more house for our money.

any experiences of where one sibling has gone to grammar and other hasn’t would also be helpful - as I think this and us being a bit remote (for friendship groups) are my key concerns

I also struggle with them not meeting their intended purpose - a high quality education for children from poorer families. Nearly every child going for grammar is having tutoring - they are up against children whose private schools are coaching them to get in so have to do it even if bright. I feel guilty in some ways that we can afford it but other children in DD's class who are equally bright and deserving can't. That doesn't stop me doing it, but I do feel its unfair that entry is often based on if the parents can pay.

A non selective private near us boasts 100% pass rate for the 11+, so it's clearly not only linked to a child's ability.

How do you know they'd have both got in? The grammars here is not just pass the 11olus but also be in the top 120 scores for the chosen school. You'd have no idea who your kids would've been up against

Yes this gas always been the case

Yet those same parents but houses near nice secondary schools ,

Sounds like you need to stop this madness now and focus on your daughters wellbeing

I'd move for the ability to walk to a good school, have local friends and avoid the grammar school exam stress.

OP - of course people are desperate for grammar school places; they don't want their child ending up in the non-grammar school which is what happens if you live in a grammar area and don't pass the exam. It doesn't make grammar school inherently better - studies have shown no difference in counties with grammars versus counties with similar demographics and comprehensive schools. But lots of people (one at least on this thread) don't seem to realise that getting better results with a selective intake compared to a non-selective intake is not really that impressive.

Yes, but it can change. We asked DD in year 4 if she wanted to do the 11+, and we looked at some secondaries both grammar and comp as school advised to do this. She really liked one of the grammars and decided to go for 11+. My feeling was she would do well anywhere as bright and ambitious, so the choice was purely hers.

First couple terms of prep and tutoring were fine. But after Easter it ramped up and the discussions at school increased. I think it became very real and DD has really struggled with concept that her future (in her mind) depends on a couple hours if tests. This really suprised us and school, as she has always been quite resilient - generally does well at sports but not bothered when looses etc.

Through this process we think grammar isn't the right option for her, but it's hard to tell her to not take the test/to not go if passes after so much hard work from her.

Is this for super selective?

I'm in Kent and I think the exam passes select the top 25% then the head teachers assessment and parent appeals it goes up to more like 30% so it's not crazy competitive.

DD just did a group tuition class after school once a week through year 6. She did well academically so it was just an extra hour doing something she was good at with a small group including some of her close friends. No stress.

I hate the whole grammar thing and am very glad we live in a non grammar area.

Absolutely. But what does that look like in practice? We asked her if wanted to stop tutoring and not take the test. She said no. We try to reassure her that it really isn't that important, she says to her it is. We have talked about over ruling her and just stopping it anyway but that may distress her more. We are encouraging her to get out and exercise, do playdates etc. We have asked her school for advice on the basis they must have seen this situation before but it's new to us.

I wish we hadn't even started on this track, but we can't turn back time.

We are bucks, which I think isn't super selective, I'm told top 20% ish. She is definitely able enough, but at this point I'm not really bothered whether she gets in or not. Only that the process is really upsetting her. Academically I think she will do fine wherever, but the grammar near us has a rep for being high pressure, and the comp as being bad for bullying.

DH and I have seriously considered moving to Berks, but getting to work would be hard for me especially.

If I had a child who went through process easily, got in, thrived at grammar I'm sure I would have a very different perspective, but for now I wish they weren't a thing.

See my DD2 wasn't tutored. I got some previous papers to show her how the VR reasoning etc worked and to practice on but that was only a couple of months before the exam. No pressure, no stress

DS didn't want to take him and DD1 wouldn't have got through even if shed had wonderful tutors from birth

Yeah it seems every other kid in Medway at least is at grammar

I’m similar - we moved from a grammar area when the children were young to a comp area. I don’t think both of mine would’ve got in, one maybe. Walking to school was a huge priority as well as it being comprehensive. Both are adults now and I have never regretted our decision.

Id move

Totally agree with this. I have one in a super selective and one in a selective. They are both very able and it would have been awful parenting on my part had I not pursued these avenues for both of them.

Pretending that the level of education is the same as a comp is just ridiculous, the level of work taught and classroom environment is completely different and anyone claiming it isn't are just kidding themselves.

The difficulty here is one of nomenclature.

In a grammar area, there are no comprehensive schools, because no school contains a comprehensive range of abilities in the proportion they exist in the local community. Instead, grammars contain most of the top x%, while the ‘other schools’ contain the remaining 100-x%.

The ‘other schools in grammar areas’ used to be called secondary moderns, but the lower status associated with that name means that they were gradually renamed as ‘high schools’ or ‘John Smith School’ and lazily denoted as ‘comps’.

Areas with no grammar schools, on the other hand, have schools that are much more genuinely comprehensive (full range of ability intake). Obviously there are still effects of faith schools and private schools, but not the systematic removal of higher ability pupils characteristic of grammar areas.

True comprehensives vary by area - from the leafy and privileged to the astonishingly deprived. However, they do largely represent the area they are in.

When those in a grammar area say that what they looked for in a grammar was not available in a ‘comp’, they are (in general) meaning ‘in my local secondary moderns, affected by my grammar’.

In areas with no grammar schools, the top sets of comprehensives are those who would have been in the grammars, and these may (and many do) offer an educational experience that is comparable to a grammar in a different county.

I have 2 very able, comprehensive educated DC, who have both gone on to highly selective institutions for their chosen post-18 pathway, with breadth of education (2 language GCSEs etc) and grades absolutely comparable to their grammar / private school educated age peers.

So if I was advising the OP, I would say yes, move area - make sure that you are far away enough from a grammar area border to properly avoid the grammar school effect.

Look at Attainment and Progress measures for the comprehensive for the ability groups (eg higher or middle ability) relevant to your children on the DfE website. The Covid era means that the Progress data is not available for the most recent cohort, but it remains a much better indicator of the school (rather than the cohort) than simply attainment.

Thanks for the replies. Interesting that such a mix of responses and the poll is nearly 50/50 - in line with me being in two minds! We’ll definitely not be making any rash decisions on this one