To think it's key for government to take a stronger approach to cracking down on extremism and anti Semitism in Muslim faith schools and after school madrasas?

[Jane379]

It's clear that while sections of the immigrants who've come recently have dangerous attitudes towards women among other things, a lot of the serious problems we're having with anti Semitism now stem from extreme versions of Islam which exist among people who were born here. Take Essa Suleiman, who came here in Thatcher's time as a child.

The 2010s had more discourse about the influence of Muslim faith schools and after schools madrasas, but what was actually done? It's clear that in several areas, Bradford for one, extreme attitudes persistent among at least some sections of the Muslim community. Cousin marriage despite the heavily proved risk of severe disability is another sign of this. As is the persistence of grooming gangs in several areas. 

Obviously huge numbers of British Muslims are moderate in their views, and many madrasas and Muslim faith schools are fine. But I think there is strong evidence many are not, and the government must address this.

AIBU?

I used to live in the US, different states - I just never saw people in Muslim dress ever -everyone was in western clothes. Maybe there were very few Muslims there but I think it was more people picking up that if you want to fit in you adapt. Our colonialist past has meant we pander to be ‘inclusive’ which has completely backfired.

By Muslim dress, do you mean religious coverings like hijabs? Or other clothes?

I don't see any issue with religious headscarves but niqabs and burqas covering face and eyes should not be allowed. They are not that common anyway. In a way, though I see what you mean, I feel like discussing clothes is easier than discussing how to change the values people live by.

Muslims who moved to US are a much smaller community, they tend to have already been urban, educated and more secular when they moved. Iranians, for one, are very likely to fear fundamentalist forms of religion.

Whereas the UK arguably selected the group of Muslims much less likely to adapt when they invited conservative rural Pakistani Muslims as mill workers back in the 1950s and 1960s and from then on, who often formed large communities (essentially transplanted villages) in Bradford etc. It's very hard to understand why the government's back then didn't think more about potential integration issues.

There are very few Muslim faith schools, and not a massive number where Muslims are a majority.

Educating against anti-semitism and all other forms of racism is for all schools.

According to this link, which I need to check : ' There are currently nearly thirty state-funded Muslim schools in England and Wales and around an additional 180 private Muslim schools'.

https://faithschoolersanonymous.uk/category/muslim-schools/

I agree faith schools are not probably a huge part of the problem: I suspect after school madrasas may be more of a risk in some cases,,especially as they are used by many more English Muslim kids.

Tbh I think my concern with Islamic and Orthodox Jewish education is how misogynistic it can be. In Islamic schools there is some evidence that the Secular Society found about schools teaching the validity of physical force against women and girls. Orthodox Jewish schools have their own issues about girls being educated at all.

Only about half are ofsted inspected and it's a bit of a lighter touch. The other half are ISI which is an even lighter touch approach.

I'm not saying there's no regulation, but there's a bit of "mates of mates" approach at times

This is true.

And even more bizarrely, many on the left are very happy to turn a blind eye to coercive voting (some in Muslim communities have actually lost the means to exercise their democrat right to a free vote) and voter fraud as long as they think it benefits them.

But the Ks speech mentioned a new law against anti Muslim speech - my opinion on that is WTF

This is horrendous. I'm really disgusted that this was in the Kings Speech. They are pandering to the most hardline Muslims with this, who want no criticism of their actions, much of which affects members of the Muslim community- just not the ones who politicians listen to-ras @CornishDaughteroftheDawn mentioned, women who have been denied the vote as well as girls being taken to foreign countries for marriage, cousin marriage etc affecting Muslim women and children.

My children go to a Jewish school. It was the only way to ensure they got the Jewish holidays off school. My children don't need Easter off, they need to be off for Passover. They need to finish early on a Friday during the winter months. So abolishing faith schools isn't really a great suggestion.

And before I get the usual hate, there are NOT just Jewish children at the school. At the very least we have Muslim, Christian, Hindu and atheist children. I don't know if there are children of other religions or beliefs because I haven't exactly run a school-wide survey questioning the children 😅 So I can only comment on the religions and beliefs of the people I know personally.

My children attend an orthodox Jewish school. It's a mixed gender one. I'm not sure why you think orthodox Jews don't educate their girls?! Even the most religious people I know send their daughters to school. Literally never met a Jewish family where the girls haven't been educated.

struggling with the idea of Orthodox Jewish education being inclusive of other religions. Where is the school?

Isn't it wrong to force children to believe something they are too young too understand?

I'm obviously not going to tell you where it is for my own safety, but it's in England. Of course it is inclusive of other religions. Why on earth would you assume it wouldn't be? We've had parents come in and talk about Eid and Diwali. Also Nowruz, although that's more of a cultural holiday.

It's a British faith school, of course it's open to people of other religions too as long as they're willing to abide by the schools religious ethos. A bit like how my dad attended a Christian school back in the day.

So a Jewish school but not an Orthodox one? Forgive me but that is what it sounds like? There is quite a difference in practice and teaching.

It's an Orthodox Jewish school.

Who is forcing their child to believe something?

When you say Orthodox Jewish, do you mean Ultra Orthodox? My understanding is that most Orthodox Jews are Modern Orthodox, the Ultra Orthodox are a minority among Jews and tend to have much stricter schools where there have been issues. Most Modern Orthodox schools don't have these issues.
Also, my understanding was that it's generally Ultra Orthodox Jewish boys who get a harder time in school, as their education often focuses on religion to the detriment of secular subjects. Traditionally, unlike other fundamentalist branches of religion, Ultra Orthodox Jewish women actually receive MORE secular education than the men, ad they are expected to be breadwinners and interact with the outside world while the men study Torah full time.

I think this person is confusing Orthodox Jewish with Ultra Orthodox/Haredi schools.

This must change, no wonder there have been issues with private faith schools...

How do you mean? The state can't forbid parents raising their child in a religion..

Yes, this is my worry too.

Haredi Jewish schools as I've said, have had various issues, but most Jewish schools are not Haredi.

The point about Fridays is very important: if a family are observant, how else would Fridays work?

And there's also the terrible fact that increasing numbers of Jewish students are moving to Jewish schools to escape anti Semitic bullying. There have been threads on here about this.

Orthodox and ultra orthodox Jews have absolutely no problem educating girls.
Actually when it comes to secular subjects, especially among the ultra orthodox, girls are more likely to.be educated than boys.
Look up Hasmonean girls school. An orthodox jewish girls school. Look at their exam results and tell me orthodox Jews have a problem with girls education...

Exactly! Pp seemed very misinformed. As you say, the Ultra Orthodox (who are a minority among Orthodox Jews) are more likely to withhold secular education from boys if from anyone.

Those views arent just in schools, those views are in those people, in their homes and conversation and attitudes. It’s obvious. It’s the truly ridiculous elephant in the room.