AIBU to expect my mum to stop criticising my home and parenting?

[Ci19]

I am a 42F. I am very close to my mum always, but she is also a tricky character. She can be quite controlling and constantly makes comments- interfering in my parenting or things about the house e.g. it stresses her out if my house isn't perfectly tidy. I have 3 small kids and sometimes there's toys everywhere and chaos but the house is clean!! She will comment on anything from my fridge to the toys to my bedroom etc. She has commented before on how she will always "say what she thinks". If ever I get upset or challenge her, usually when I'm stressed or not in good form or not able for the comments she turns it on me that she's only trying to help, and if I dont want the help then she'll stop coming around. I am then the horrible daughter. She herself hates being told what to do by anyone yet spends her time telling me and my siblings what we need to do. She says I am "only suggesting things to make your life easier " or "I dont want you making the same mistakes I did". But if she suggests something and i dont do it she then gets insulted and brings it up until i do!! We had a big fall out last week as I snapped back when she came into my new house commenting on everything and basically making out like we were ruining our house (which was perfectly tidy and clean). She is now acting the total victim and cant see that she oversteps her boundaries again and again. Usually when this happens i have to apologise (even if I don't believe I should) as she would never dream of apologising. She minds my children so if I don't it's going to be difficult. But I really dont want to as I feel she needs to respect my family and that she can't control everyone around her. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks

The tricky bit here is that she minds your children.

so yes, she is clearly upsetting you and a normal strategy would be to say something,

your problem may be that if you upset her she may refuse to mind your kids.

can you deal with that if she does?

if so, go right ahead. Otherwise it’s going to be tricky.

This is why "grey rock" is a useful technique. But not ideal when you need childcare

Use paid childcare. Stop being so enmeshed.

are you paying her? is not, then this is the cost of her help. If you are using her to benefit yourself then you're gonna have to suck it or pr pay for help.

My dad commented on my outdoor window ledge being dirty when I was in the thick of it with a new baby, he said it just needed a quick wipe. I said I will get you a cloth then! He stopped commenting after that!

You cant be relying on her for childcare, the price is letting her criticise everything and you don’t want to tolerate that. Fair enough. But then accept you need a different (paid) babysitter. Does she have them so you can work or is it more flexible babysitting so you can go out?

Yes this. Are you really close with someone who criticises you constantly, or have you just been conditioned to believe you "should be" close? As you've also been conditioned that you must put up with her comments and apologise when you've done nothing wrong?

YANBU. She is not treating you like a fully fledged adult, with feelings and thoughts of your own, but like an extension of herself that she has full "rights" over.

However in practice it is tricky to navigate given you need her help.

Ultimately I put my kids in paid childcare partly because the stress of all the cleaning - and still failing to live up to my mum's standards and being constantly called out on it - was taking up too much headspace than I had to spare. She no longer comes to the house, which much as she is offended by, at least saves her from having to endure our pit of disgust.

My counsellor thinks she is desperately competitive and probably quite unhappy, and makes herself feel better by denigrating me. Her advice is basically keep this woman away from your children.

She might be providing free childcare but it comes at a cost, not just to you and your mental health but your children see her criticising you all the time. What message do you think this sends? She can dish it but she can't take it.

I think you need to look into FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) and how to get out of feeling that way. If you were honest right now, what positives does she bring to your life? After every encounter with her are you happy you spent time with her?

I would honestly look into paid childcare. I say this as a child who witnessed a grandparent constantly nitpicking at everything and we wished my parents had grown a backbone and stopped seeing her. Her nitpicking didn't stop at my parents, it then turned to us but in an underhand way, ie your cousins are so well behaved. Turned out she was saying the same thing to our cousins so making us all feel like shit.

So FOG research and then enforcing boundaries, you have asked her not to do something, she still does it, she doesn't get to see you or the children. Look into childcare.

Does she actually help you or is she just an armchair critic? I would not apologise for telling her to mind her own business. How much childcare does she do?

knead some bread, mow the lawn,
take your frustrations out, i have been there!
let it wash over you , change the subject

Goodness, I have this problem with my DB and Sil. I also have 3 children and they are both OCD in the cleanliness department. I was told that I should stay up all night to clean if that what it takes to achieve the show home look with an 8,5 and 2 year old. I was told I was failing as a parent and my children probably wouldn't have any friends. My Sil also doesn't want us to visit as it would ruin their perfectly manicured house. Some family are just vile, especially hard if it is your own mother though!

Please tell me you’ve told them to fuck off and stopped having them over?

See her less and meet outside your home.
But the mind your children comment is vague.
If she babysits odd occasion then bite your tongue.
If she’s minding them daily in your house then it does blur boundaries. If she’s being expected to care for them in what she perceives as disorganisation then she does have a say eg if you don’t pair socks or hang uniform up. Your choice if you get your kids dressed and do school run. If you are expecting her to do it daily and she’s sick of last minute stress she has a say even though it’s your house.

Could you speak to her calmly and proactively? Reacting is always going to be problematic as your emotions are not regulated. Think about what you want to say in advance ‘I feel X when…’ (maybe do some reading/listening to advice on managing tricky conversations). Be prepared for her to react badly (e.g pick a time when her withdrawing childcare would be manageable). But hopefully she’ll reflect and come back to you if you leave the door open. My mother criticised my children (‘miserable’ ‘overweight’ - both words used to describe my two when each was less than 3) and we’re very much not close these days. I didn’t take my own advice. I basically engineered it so I didn’t rely on her at all and then allowed things to drift. She didn’t try to build the bridge, so here we are. But I wasn’t going to allow her to make me or my children feel like rubbish.

This one is more common than it should be. I agree with another poster that the psychological mechanism behind it is a superiority delusion and insecurity but it is actually quite difficult to counteract with these personality types.

They have a slight trigger that makes them feel insecure so they project that out using superiority and usually barbs and sly digs but ultimately they are looking for someone outside of themself to make themself feel better.

They need a lot of praise and attention and compliments agreeing with how wonderful they are to regulate their triggered nervous system.

Honestly I think a bit of overegged performative praise might be your best bet rather than confrontation.

So a comment like “your fridge is messy” tells you she is looking for some praise (all about her and absolutely nothing to do with either you or your fridge) and you say “I noticed how well you’ve done yours, I’d never be able to get up to your standards, you do such an excellent job”

Then hopefully she stops her bitching and cleans your fridge out.

This. Stand on your own two feet. My mums exactly like this. I would never allow her this leverage over me. She loves to control. You need to stand on your own two feet, and put in boundaries. You are not a child anymore and she cannot control and manipulate you like this. She will never stop of you don't remove the leverage she has on you ( providing chilcare)

@Covgal83 I totally agree with most of what you wrote and I'm sorry she said that to your children.

However I think you need to be a bit careful about going in with "I feel..." with some people. It's basically the opposite to grey rock. "You're hurting my feelings" would be a disastrous play against a playground bully, and sometimes the dynamic has more in common with that than with everyone being kind, well intentioned and respectful adults. A question of know your audience I guess.

Hmm. Reading your OP I was thinking that this was really easy to sort.

if ever I get upset or challenge her, usually when I'm stressed or not in good form or not able for the comments she turns it on me that she's only trying to help,

"No you're not, you're being an interfering busybody."

and if I dont want the help then she'll stop coming around.

"Fine, works for me"

But then I got to:
She minds my children so if I don't it's going to be difficult.

This is the downside of using free childcare.

Agreed. This is great advice for lots of healthy, well developed psychologically adults, essentially mature adults. Unfortunately this does not work on mothers who use undermining their own daughters as a way to deal with their own insecurities. They need different tactics and really those tactics are dealing with their needs in the moment (regulation of their nervous systems externally) or alternatively stepping right back and unpicking the enmeshment. Both of these have their downsides as well as upsides.

yanbu at all. you are 42 years old with 3 kids and your own house. you are way too old to be scolded like a naughty teenager in your own home.
the problem here is the childcare. free childcare is never actually free on mumsnet, you pay for it with your mental health and your boundaries. she knows you rely on her to mind the kids, which is exactly why she feels so entitled to treat your house like her own personal project and then play the victim when you finally snap. it's classic emotional blackmail. "if you don't let me be rude to you, i won't help you."
please do not apologise this time. if you apologise, you are just resetting the cycle and teaching her that if she sulks long enough, you will cave. you are rewarding her bad behaviour. let her sulk. let her play the victim.
if she threatens to stop coming round or stop minding the kids, you need to call her bluff. say "okay mum, if that's what you want, i'll make other arrangements." i know finding alternative childcare for 3 kids is an absolute nightmare, but you really need to start looking into it, even just as a backup. until you don't need her for childcare, she will always hold all the cards.
drop the rope. don't text her begging for forgiveness. she says she "says what she thinks", well so did you! enjoy the peace and quiet in your lovely new clean house.

What’s she doing in your bedroom? Sounds overinvolved. Just see less of her.

I have similar experience of mother overstepping boundaries about everything all the time. She has to be in control. She gives me tips and advice when I never ask for it. I can't tell her anything because she will find ways to make it better or easier or just different. I usually agree with her and then do how I please. But it's tough. If I challenge her, she gets upset, cries, basically has a tantrum and sulks. I then have to go and apologise for being terrible. If I openly do opposite of what she wants/expects me to do, she'll say 'do whatever you want' which translates into 'do as I want or I will be upset'. If I don't comply, she's stonewalling me. I'm 47 and have 5 year old DD. I'm in therapy reparenting myself so I can be the supportive, empathetic, non-controlling parant to my daughter, a parent I always wanted to have.
Forget about free childcare, this behaviour and treatment will have detrimental effect on your children.