To think some landlords can be incredibly cruel

[QuietQuestioner]

I know this won’t apply to all landlords and I’m not saying they’re all bad. But I’ve noticed that in some situations - particularly around repairs, notice periods or when tenants are vulnerable, landlords (or their agents) can behave in ways that feel needlessly harsh or lacking in basic empathy. I understand it’s a business relationship but sometimes the decisions made go beyond “businesslike” and into territory that feels unnecessarily cold.

AIBU to think there’s a cruelty problem in parts of the rental sector?

I think a lot of property ‘investors’ are unaware of the costs of running a rental property.

They then are pissed off when they realise after the mortgage etc they don’t have any money left over, the only gain is on selling it.

So it all just feels like a massive expensive hassle in which they aren’t really benefiting.

That was my conclusion, after a lot of years of renting!

Some probably don’t give a damn. Some, like me, act as soon as a problem is raised. We have just offered our rental to the tenants to buy under the concessionary landlord to tenant mortgage deal. I’m really hoping they go for it. They’re great tenants (compared to the aggressive alcoholic I had to evict) and have been there long term.

It’s a long time since I rented but in my children’s experience I have seen nothing that I would describe as “cruel”.

Lax, greedy, lazy, uninterested, and petty: yes. But not cruel.

There’s cruelty everywhere, in every business. I’ve never seen anything to suggest it’s a particular problem among landlords. Indifference and lack of understanding probably cause far more problems for tenants than deliberate cruelty.

Like you say, its a business but I have to agree that sometimes it can feel like what you're describing. Particularly when a property/management company was involved. After many years of renting in the past, it definitely was a roll of the dice situation. I couldn't even imagine renting today and particularly if kids/schools are involved in the mix.

I agree that it's more likely to be indifference or thoughtlessness than cruelty.

I always used to try to avoid 'accidental' landlords or landlords who only had one or two properties, because they were the most likely not to be aware of what their responsibilities were. There's often an attitude of expecting tenants to put up with inconvenience on the grounds that the landlord imagines they would have been ok with that. 'Oh, yes, the toilet isn't working but we won't call an emergency plumber, I wouldn't do that at home because it costs money, you'll have to wait' or 'well, the heating is broken and might take a few weeks to fix but that's houses for you'. They don't realise that you are paying to have these things sorted out promptly, and assume they are entitled to do things on their own time schedule. Same sorts of people do things like assuming it's ok to wander in and out, or comandeer the washing machine if theirs is broken.

Actual cruelty is more likely to be slum landlords who are perfectly aware of what they are doing, own masses of properties, and often target people who they know perfectly well can't or won't protest. There, we are talking things like housing people in unheated garden sheds with no access to running water. Yes, that's cruel and absolutely disgusting. But most non-vulnerable people would see the red flags long before they came anywhere near this, sadly.

Yes there are, but equally there are tenants that take the P* too!

I find agencies are horrible. Both towards tenants and landlords. They pretend to speak fir either but really give their own narratives.

They are callous and only care about money. My best decision was to ditch them and have contact with my tenants directly. So much better all around.

Cruel isn’t the word I would use. I don’t think there is intention behind the action. Cheap is the issue.

It’s not that a landlord wants you to suffer without a working toilet for a week. It’s that they are too cheap to hire a licensed plumber and are waiting for their friend to be available to work off the books. (This happened in real life)

it’s not that the landlord doesn’t care about the mold. He actually has it in his own unit. (This one he finally agreed to put a tarp on the roof after many complaints and water pouring into fast I couldn’t empty the buckets fast enough)

these are different units with different landlords. This kind of experience stopped when I reached a point in life that I could afford more expensive housing. The landlords were less prone to extreme behavior.

I wouldn't say anything of my landlords have been cold hearted then I have never given them reason to be.
Greedy though. Very greedy.

Do you have any examples of what you consider to be "incredibly cruel"?

Some do forget peoples’ homes are not commodity enterprises like handbags or shoes. Lots of good ones out there too though, thankfully.

I think you're spot on. A lot of people think they are going to make a huge profit without realising there are costs and many of those are very expensive.

We have been brainwashed almost into thinking a buy to let is a brilliant investment. I will never forget and to me it summed up how poor a journalist he is, that Jeremy Vine kept interrupting Martin Lewis saying "well people can get a buy to let mortgage" as Martin was trying to explain the ramifications of the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the impact on the mortgage market. Jeremy had no idea that the mortgage door had slammed closed and the price of borrowing, if you actually could, was going to rocket.

Many buy to let landlords seem to be in a similar position. They've tied up their money in a product (the property) which will most likely increase in value over time. But they need to spend money on maintenance to make that happen.

I really think voting on this thread should be limited to those who rent.

You are absolutely right OP. There's a massive power imbalance and our neoliberal society has taught landlords that they're successful and superior and their renters are poorer and needing to rent, because they deserve to be so.

I suppose you have to separate emotional and business when being a landlord. Mostly the landlord won’t know their tenant that well. You can’t run a business if you allow yourself to be emotionally focused on someone as it blurs the lines. And some people can be manipulative if they sense what they consider to be a weakness. Just best to keep everything on a business footing.

Abolish landlords.

I too am not sure about the word cruel but (having a business in the construction sector) have seen a lot of LL’s ill prepared for necessary maintenance works and that includes PM’s who pussy foot around owners who have a portfolio of properties that the PM is earning a nice weekly buffer from, and who won’t get necessary works done.

We also experience the tenants from hell. Had one this week where water is pouring into a property but the tenants wouldn’t allow our team to enter to property despite coordination from the PM. Those ones should be financially responsible for the damage being caused to that property.

Anyhow Humans can be arseholes regardless if they own property or not…

I’m an accidental landlord, as are several of my friends. We’ve inherited family property; in my case I inherited my mother’s 50% share of the family home and when my dad bought a flat he didn’t want to sell the house. I’d have preferred just to get rid but he wasn’t ready.
Dad has now died and I have the other 50%.
Myself and my friends haven’t set out to do this and we all use estate agencies to manage the rentals as we have jobs/ children and don’t live anywhere near our properties.
My managing agent does everything for a percentage of the rent. They have in house trades and have a standing agreement to fix anything up to a certain amount, and above that they just email for approval.
I still don’t want to be a landlord but my tenants are good and I’ll probably just reassess when they leave. But I certainly wouldn’t write off “accidental landlords”.

OP, not suggesting this applies here, but many people were sold the idea that buy to let is a quick way to get rich. Social media “experts” pushed courses and drew in people who were not financially fit for this level of risk, often pointing them towards specialist lenders with higher interest rates..

As a result, some landlords do the bare minimum and rush to let, while running on very tight margins. One major repair can wipe them out.

Some are now leaving the market, which is a positive.

I've had the full spectrum of landlords - helpful random blokes, psychotic grabby nutters, managed by agency dimwits, managed professionally at great expense. Given the choice I prefer professional/institutional landlords as they tend to even out at "expensive but okay", whereas "random/accidental" landlords can really go either way.

It's just a total nightmare to end up with an accidental landlord who won't replace the boiler because they don't want to, or because they can't afford it. If needing to replace a boiler would put you up shit creek you cannot afford to be a landlord.

Unfortunately, I do - it's just not worth it, unless there's really nothing else out there.

I know many accidental landlords are perfectly nice people, but I've just had - and heard of - so many bad experiences with them. And sometimes it's not even that they set out to do anything awful, which somehow makes it worse.

IME it's just much better to avoid them.

Without an example It’s impossible to say?

2 sides to everything Oz. One of my London flats has two young women in it (between 28-32) it’s a north London property. They said the cooker wasn’t working so sent a repair man out who confirmed it was dead and needed to be replaced. So looked at 3 different types and chose mid range! Paid for delivery and installation, checked with both girls if the timing would be ok etc. I asked if I should come and wait etc as we had a confirmed slot between 11-1pm. (They were going to take the old one away)
engineer turned up at 11.30 called to say he is at the property. (He had the girls numbers too) they didn’t pick up) said he would wait whilst I track them down. Girls had gone into town and asked if he could come back at 4! He said no he had other jobs so I had to pay and book another slot! I had checked with them first if they wanted me to do this the first time around! I tried to give them privacy and they didn’t give a toss! As you know during lockdown most London properties were available, I used the time to actual look at some of the hides and flats and was shocked at the condition! Coffee stains on the back of bedroom doors. Chewing gum/glue in carpets. Broken mirrors in bathroom… do I think these tenants are cruel - nah. Just not bothered to look after something that means nothing to them. I also don’t think people who have property are better than those who don’t. (And therefore treat those who don’t badly)

I bought a buy to let house using some redundancy my. Then my mum died and with my inheritance bought another house with a BTL mortgage. After mortgage payments, tax and maintenance costs etc I worked out that the total profit for BOTH houses per year was only £5,000. So yes it was a profit but considering the work involved and insurances and other costs it wasn’t a huge amount. I’m sure I’m not alone with this scenario either but all landlords are tarred with the same brush.