To think someone having carers 7 hours a day doesn’t reduce the risk of someone being a serious risk to themselves

[Youlose7777]

With multiple attempts and hospital admissions sometimes they haven’t even told anyone to seek help. People who did mental health act assessment sent them home as they have carers 7 hours a day but untimely they do still live alone.

This. AIBU is a terrible place to go when feeling vulnerable, you will soon have posters questioning everything about your condition and suggesting it's all in your head. Or poor parenting. Or personal responsibility...you get it.

I'd ask MN to move it to the relevant section ❤

It wouldn't really achieve anything from the sounds of it. Inpatient stays are basically a holding cell while people get started on a medication or regain a grip on reality. They don't particularly support you, there's no therapy or anything and it's certainly not restful. 7 hours of carers a day is probably more useful than a stay in a psychiatric ward.

Plus with multiple attempts, you do have to take the stance that if someone genuinely wants to kill themselves then it's not possible to prevent it. You can't forcibly imprison someone and force them to stay alive. It's their choice to make.

If they don't want to die and it's just attention seeking, well, there is still nothing achieved by a hospital stay except a waste of resources. That person would need to help themselves a little and refer themselves for therapy.

@Balloonhearts

If they don't want to die and it's just attention seeking, well, there is still nothing achieved by a hospital stay except a waste of resources. That person would need to help themselves a little and refer themselves for therapy.

You seem to think it's either/or; they will end their life OR they're just attention seeking. What about people who are trying to find a way to go on? Who are trying to find an alternative to suicide?

It really gets me that the system doesn't seem to allow for this. Like, you have to be ready to end it all/completely hopeless to get help, otherwise you're on your own as you apparently can't really feel that bad. They don't seem to recognise that helping people who are still able to have a tiny scrap of hope is a good idea!

Saying these people should "refer themselves for therapy" - they can refer themselves all they like, but so often the system won't provide it! That's how people end up chasing nonexistent help for years, periodically ending up assessed in hospital (if not admitted), with support workers or a CPN, but never any actual treatment. This leads to the despair and repeated suicidal ideation.

Unless the treatment that is wanted is medication it will not be available in hospital. If the treatment that is wanted is 1:1 long term therapy then surely you can understand that this is incredibly expensive and therefore largely unaffordable to the NHS. Short courses of CBT and Group therapy such as DBT are often offered and rejected but that is at least affordable and able to be offered. There will never be the resources in NHS mental health for 1:1 long term therapy for all who would benefit or would like to have it. Plus people have to be ready to change. Therapy isn’t just talking about stuff and getting validation there has to be a willingness/ motivation to change engrained maladaptive coping strategies like self harm and that’s hard to do. I think OP just wants containment and looking after from a hospital stay and that is not a good reason for admission since it can only ever be short term and the risks will be just the same post discharge.

"Plus with multiple attempts, you do have to take the stance that if someone genuinely wants to kill themselves then it's not possible to prevent it. You can't forcibly imprison someone and force them to stay alive. It's their choice to make."

Some people need other people to hold hope for them until they can hold hope for themselves. It strikes me that, @Youlose7777, what you're really looking for is a sign that you're worth fighting for? That you matter? That you're seen?

I don't think hospital is a good place for that. My mother was sectioned in 2017, kept in for 3 months, one of which was in general hospital with 1:1 supervision because they tanked her kidneys by prescribing lithium when they knew she wasn't drinking. She was on the verge of catatonia, so really couldn't 'decide' to do anything. She was eventually released because it was safer to have her home than in hospital. She was no better and she has never recovered, physically or mentally.

@Youlose7777 what would make it better for you? Do you have any people that you see on a regular basis? Any groups you can join?

Well apart from the 7 hours S117 funded care a day.

Being unable or unwilling to provide the appropriate treatment doesn't mean it's ok to blame the patient who needs it, or make out they are being unreasonable for wanting treatment.

Offering inappropriate or substandard treatment doesn't mean the person is at fault for not recovering. (And before you say DBT is recommended - yes, that's proper full DBT, which includes several stages and individual therapy. Not the watered-down short term group element only as the NHS provide).

I've not only had therapy, but started training in it so I do know what it involves. As someone who had been through a lot of trauma the validation aspect was vital -.the NHS services has pretty much dismissed all that and expected me to suck it up and just be fine. It was great when the nightmares and intrusive memories started to fade.

I know someone who got years of one-to-one in-depth therapy from the NHS, even when she'd apparently long recovered. It was via the eating disorders service. So if they can provide it/see the need, it seems crazy that actual mental health services can't! The funding disparity is clearly messed up.

And you'd think that 7 hours of carers a day - what, forever? - is hardly cost-effective in the long run.

where did I say 117 aftercare?

The carers aren’t mental health staff.

And then what? What are your expectations/hopes from an admission. If you have EUPD then a short admission isn't going to solve anything.
I am sorry for you. But unfortunately the only person who can help you ultimately is you. And 24/7 care is not it. Is that what you want for the rest of your life.