So frustrated and desperate for Labour to be bold and give the country something to believe in.

[youlookradishing]

This is my take on what is happening today.

I really do believe that the last decade and a half has left the country (Western world, actually) in a terrible situation and that any government with any moral values are in a totally impossible situation.

The economy needs fixing before the lasting change can happen and the public can reap any rewards, but the people are too desperate and cynical to wait. The vultures are circling and we are turning to populist voices who are looking to take advantage of our desperation by promising the impossible and delivering only for themselves to the detriment of us all.

Labour have actually tried to put the very limited public money in the right places (eg tightening up winter fuel allowance) but caved in and U-turned any time they face opposition. Policies like scrapping the two child benefit cap brought them negative press rather than positive, because of the fannying around.

Likewise they are actually bringing NHS waiting lists down and getting more houses built, but their messaging around this is utterly woeful and nobody seems to notice it’s happening.

Kier is FAR too bothered about being popular and trying to please everybody. He won the mandate in 2024 and he should have built a narrative of ‘this is gonna be shit for a while, but this is WHY, and this is why it will be WORTH it. He is trying to deliver but any positives are being utterly drowned out because there is no vision for us to believe in! At the end of the day, nothing he can deliver will ever be enough in the short term, when we’re starting from such a low baseline. This is about vision and messaging. Look at Trump, the guy is a complete lunatic, but he has charisma and tells a good story and THAT is what gets people on board long enough to actually have an impact.

I honestly believe that this Labour government are the best hope this country have got - come on Kier, time to turn it around and give us something to believe in, because we have everything to lose if you don’t!

All Labour have done is raise taxes to highest ever. Driven businesses to the wall. Increased welfare and freebies for those who contribute little to nothing. Hundreds of thousands of the highest taxpayers have left the country. And the crazy net 0 experiment is killing what left of the economy.

You love socialism, you got socialism. Let that be a lesson.

Absolutely, it's about an attitude. My friend in the example lived in a similar size house to me. I had the most supportive parents, she had the least. My parents spent their money on good food, school supplies clothes and shoes for us, my parents rarely had new clothes and went out once a year for their anniversary. Her parents were always down the pub, her house stank of cigarette smoke. I was too young naive and protected to truly understand that others didn't have the safety and support I had, I very much took it for granted.

With schools it's even more complex than that. My daughters school was thriving when oldest joined 6 years ago, she has 1 year left. A huge influx of children with huge SEN needs, plus cuts from this government has left them struggling and I'm sad my youngest won't get the same experience. The vast majority of parents remain engaged and supportive but teachers are struggling under pressure of teaching children of such vastly different needs. Putting children into mainstream who cannot cope there in the name of equality has acheived the opposite for many. My daughter talks of lessons where she learns very little and we are paying tutors to fill the gaps, many parents can't afford this, so again another inequality.

Except Labour aren't good at learning lessons. All that time in opposition should have been wisely spent, watching, listening and learning. I guess calling the Tories scum was more high on their agenda. Socialism has failed.

They need to admit that the extremely prolonged lockdowns that they cheered on caused massive, massive damage. All the parties are still saying “ssssh… they never really happened”.

Prolonged lockdowns that contributed to a failing economy, yep.

Blimey, are you even blaming Labour for the lockdowns now? Wasn't that Johnson and the Tories?

Well it seems like we are heading towards a Reform far-right experiment. I wonder whether that is going to actually be any better for the ordinary working person in the long run?
Or is it just going to benefit the very rich?

We might all be wishing for the return of the happy days of socialism in a few years time!

Why are you so happy about policies that make the country poorer? Why do you hate the UK so much?

Take £500 from a hard working person and £100 to to 5 lazy people. You lost one voter but gained 5.

The biggest Ponzi scheme in history.

I don't hate this country at all.
What I would like is to see more people sharing in the wealth that is created rather than it be concentrated amongst at few at the top.

The gap between rich and poor is significant in this country and is growing all the time. I disagree with that and would like to see that gap reduced.

I don't believe that is just immigrants and benefit recipients who are to blame for everything that is wrong in this country.
There are plenty of very wealthy people and wealthy businesses in this country who are still doing very well despite the difficult economic climate and despite what the right wing press would like us to believe. I would like to see a fairer distribution of that wealth that is all.

So far from "hating the UK", I actually care about its citizens - all of them, not just the very rich.

What I would like is to see more people sharing in the wealth that is created rather than it be concentrated amongst at few at the top.
@cloudtreecarpet

People with large estates and stately homes obviously can’t escape but lots of v rich people would leave. Would that matter or do you think those that remain would provide enough tax?

Also - people 'with large estates' don't always have much ready cash. When an aristocrat dies you often read that they gave the govt their Rembrandt in lieu of IHT, but obviously the day comes when they haven't got any more Rembrandts!

I don't agree with breaking up estates - it doesn't butter any parsnips and I'd rather these people stewarded their land properly (which many of them nowadays try to do) for all our benefit.

It's the likes of Starbucks who somehow don't pay tax in this country which I think need attention - but then they might just leave and take the jobs with them. - if there was an easy solution some politician would have found it by now.

@CoffeeCantata i agree with everything you said in your last post.
Places like Chatsworth and Burghley are beautiful buildings, historically interesting, fine art collections and - certainly at Chatsworth, not sure about Burghley - amazing gardens.
It would be a shame for these places to have the collections broken up and sold.
However I’m sure there are plenty if people who’d welcome it - or at least insist it was run by the state.

So you think capitalism is wrong. It is capitalism that keeps the economy moving not socialism, which stifles growth. It's no good constantly honing in on the criticism of illegal immigration because everyone knows that's just one facet of an economy that's being run on ideology and emotions rather than basic economics. Its simply not sustainable.

The rich are becoming richer and richer because they own assets. They need to be taxed on these assets over 10 million pounds at a high rate. The middle class young of today won't be able to afford any assets, so will become poorer. Building more houses will just enable the rich developers to become richer. If this system carries on we will all be living in the middle ages again. The government needs to have assets and these are quickly diminishing.

I think it’s a real problem that people who are relatively wealthy don’t grasp that they’re getting poorer and that they have fat more in control with people on the minimum wage than with the very wealthy people to whom wealth has been and is being transferred.

That's a childish, simplisitic argument to say that I must be "against capitalism" because I advocate for a fairer distribution of resources.

I am not advocating for communism as you well know. I do understand how capitalism works but I also think that it is possible for everyone to be a part of its success in this country rather than a smaller and smaller percentage of the population.

Sorry but you've just doubled down and entered into Marx territory.

Everyone being part of the success means everyone contributing towards making this country a success in one way or another.

But many people seem to want to be passive recipients. Our school PTA - people moan when events don't take place but don't want to help out. My girlguiding group - parents moan about wait list but don't volunteer to support.
Everyone seems to think some other group should be paying more tax 'the rich'
'big business' etc to fix public services but don't volunteer to pay more tax themselves.

Sigh, there really is no point discussing anything with you is there?

Everyone should pay the tax they are due to pay.

I think if that actually happened across the board then, yes, things would be very different.

You've clearly closed your mind so I guess not.

Who do you think creates the wealth? People on benefits?

Do you think the wealth creators are stupid that they will stick around to give away all their money while the benefits class keeps living for free?

Guess what, there is an unprecedented flight of top rate taxpayers going on currently. Those that pay for people benefits are leaving. Who is going to make up the shortfall as they take their wealth and taxes with them.

How is hating the rich working out for you now that they won’t give you their money?

Someone tell that to Angela Rayner. A socialist tax fraud.

True. But many don't, or don't by proxy.

The mechanic or plumber who does jobs cash in hand and charges less to pay less tax - their customer knows they are tox dodging but they go along with it as it benefits them to pay less. All the way up to the big corporations.

But if we increase tax on the big corps then they will leave, and 40% of zero is still zero. And we can't control the cash in hand jobs.