AIBU to think it's a shame that communal changing rooms are more likely to put girls off sport & PE than boys?

[Giselle374]

I read a few threads recently about communal changing rooms being an issue discouraging girls from PE . I feel strongly that cubicles should be provided. At my school, it wasn't an issue as we came wearing a top and skort and if we had swimming, changed in cubicles at the pool.

But at the same time, I think it's a shame that communal changing rooms don't tend to deter boys in the same way. Why? Arguably boys are less likely to feel shame about their bodies in adolescence, at least partly because of sexism : they don't get sexually harassed as much, they mostly have less visible development than breasts and periods etc Insragram etc encourages girls to view their bodies by how attractive they are rather than what they can do, but doesn’t encourage the same kind of thinking in boys : still, these issues predate it.

One poster on a thread I read argued that in Scandi countries, where saunas are common, girls are less likely to have issues with all having to change together. It’s certainly true that Britain has lower rates of girls continuing with sport into adolescence than some other countries- why would self consciousness about bodies be worse here?

Gloria Steinem wrote an interesting essay in 1981 (‘In Praise of Women’s Bodies’, in her book ‘Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions’) about going to a women’s sauna, and the relaxed, non-body conscious atmosphere. She mentioned that ‘Now, like the teenage heroine in ‘Gypsy’, who is aware of her body only after she becomes a stripper, too many of us only experience female bodies, our own and others, in social settings and private bedrooms, only when they are most isolated, artificial, self-conscious and on show for men or conventional judgement. ‘ She also noted the relative rareness of ‘dressing and undressing, talking, showering, resting — the kind of casual togetherness that seems more common to locker rooms of men".

While I don’t think we’re in quite the same situation as 1980s US women, in some ways the situation is worse due to SM.

So AIBU think it's a shame that communal changing rooms are more likely to put girls than boys off sport & PE?

I was heavily into a sport in the 80's, very good at it, top level international. I was also a late developer, everything probably delayed due to the training I did. Getting changed within my sport was never an issue, no one cared or looked or had an opinion, everyone would be naked. My mum said she was shocked when she first went into a changing room, she'd never seen anything like it growing up. At school it was horrible, everyone was tying themselves in knots trying to keep themselves covered. I never knew what to do, get changed as normal and have people stare, or try to cover up too, but having nothing to actually cover up. I do think communal changing rooms do put some women off sports, but I also think it goes far deeper with so many more reasons than just that. I had so many friends quit as they got to be older teens as they wanted boys, and girls who do sport aren't seen as attractive as those who don't, certainly not in the 80's, usually smaller boobs, more muscles etc. Apart from the obvious few who seem to rock the look and are splattered all over media.

To add: I won the national championship one year when I was in college, I was interviewed on Grandstand, for those who remember that, within seconds of the win. I was blotchy, sweaty and my hair was a mess and I was panting like crazy. I was still chuffed to bits I'd won, I'd worked hard all year for that. I was congratulated in my sport but when I went to college that week, overwhelmingly the comments I got were about my appearance on that interview. What was going on with your face, what was your hair doing, you couldn't even talk. That from male and female alike.

They have completely separate toilet blocks for girls and boys. Most don’t change for PE as they arrive in their kit and wear it all day. Those that want to change because they’ve got muddy or something do so in their toilet block.

I went to an all girls school but I can’t believe schools would make boys and girls get changed in the same area. That’s horrendous. I would have been mortified. It’s awkward enough getting changed in all women’s communal changing rooms. A few women freely walk around with what the good Lord gave them, but the rest of us are performing acrobatics under our towels so nobody sees our bums.

I left school in 2007…so a fair few years ago now.

I think it starts before adolescence - nudity is confined to the private realm in childhood.

Some clothes shops (Topshop?) used to have communal changing rooms too. They definitely lost custom from some shoppers!

There are schools that avoid this by having children come for the whole day in sports wear. Is there any evidence of less of an issue where that happens? The reason for this policy may of course be to save time and avoid any 'I forgot' excuses to avoid exercise.

I'll reply to this in more detail later, but can I ask for now about this point: ' It’s been found that economic instability correlates with higher levels of adherence to stereotypical gender norms.'

• why might this be? I'd not heard this before and it's an intersting point...Traditional norms can offer feelings of stability during times of crisis, I suppose thar could be one factor.

I hated PE at school. I loved sport but not PE. I started at secondary in 1995, we had communal changing rooms with showers. My first PE lesson involved removing all clothes and each parading through the showers altogether and then back out. All while the boys and male PE teachers were in the room next door. Rooms without doors on.

I don’t ever recall having communal changing rooms at school, certainly not after reception (don’t think we got changed for PE younger than that). I did hate changing for PE with the other girls, but it definitely wasn’t what put me off PE and sport! PE and sport is what put me off PE and sport. 😂

My dd is in secondary and they have single sex changing rooms. Neither of mine ever changed for PE in primary. They come in PE kit twice a week. The only time they ever change is for swimming and that’s at a leisure centre with single sex changing rooms so I assume they must use them. There’s no way they’re bring 10-12 year old boys all into the ladies.

So what you're saying is that girls are put off by other girls being mean to them.

That doesn't sound like it's the communal changing that is the core problem.

No, the post you quoted also cites other factors that make girls feel awkward about their bodies . I agree bullying by other girls shows deeper issues though.

Secondary school in the 90s.

I still remember the hot shame of realising I was one if the latest to develop, then that I had developed bigger boobs than the popular thin girls. That I had crop tops instead of bras. That I had the wrong brand bras. That my legs were hairy. That I hadn’t started shaving my bikini line. That I had shaving rash on my bikini line. That I was chubby.

It was basically all of the usual bullying but ramped up because you were half naked and cold so felt more vulnerable, and the bullies knew the teachers couldn’t hear it.

My son’s primary does this and it seems to work better.
My other son says they have actual lockers and cubicles in his changing rooms and there’s enough for 10 boys at a time, so the most confident ones get changed outside or they share the cubicles, which again, seems to work better.

I hated sports/PE at school for this very reason.
We were made to hang our towels up on hooks and queue for the shower (which was a tiled tunnel type thing) naked. This was in the 90s.
As an adult, I worked in hospitals and always changed in the loo.

So sorry for those who were bullied. The main things that put me off P.E. and sports were no sports bras and heavy periods! Absolutely no bullying, all girls school in the sixties.
We had communal changing rooms, but not a problem until showers were installed! We would all charge through trying to hang onto our towels under the watchful gaze of our female P.E. teacher!!

I think it’s a multitude of things.

One most of the Pe at school is boy focused.

Two you don’t actually get time to freshen up, now I don’t mean a full on shower but often you’d only have 10 minutes top between end of Pe and being expected to be in the next lesson which could be the other side and up two flights of stairs. And spray deodorant being banned.

Also I swear every school has at least one creepy pe teacher who likes to wonder inside the changing rooms lingering for just long enough to make you uncomfortable.

I like schools that let the children come in, in Pe kit. Be even better if then pe was the last lesson of the day and not so boy rough focused.

There are development issues that are different for girls which are visible in just underwear - when you finally switch to wearing a bra everyone notices, and period leaks on underwear even earlier in the day are visible. My period would begin every time I stepped into a swimming pool and would last 10 days so I would miss every other week of swimming because of my period and everyone would know. That was humiliating, I wish there were just options to pick and choose for each PE lesson and swimming wasn’t mandated like that, as I was too young for tampons. I hear there is period swimwear for younger girls now which sounds good, but my periods were so heavy I’m not sure they would have worked, I had to sleep less hours when in as a teenager or I would leak at night on the night pads. And I know others had it worse than me, so of course those girls will often learn to hate sport. Luckily my parents encouraged sport outside of school and worked within my capacity in my cycle.