AIBU to think English should have a functional Nat 5 equivalent?

[PoemsSchmoems]

We are in Scotland. DS(16) is sitting his Nat 5s (GCSE equivalents). There are two maths courses available - Maths, which includes algebra, trigonometry etc and Applications of Maths which is a more functional course covering the maths needed for day-to-day life (money etc). Unless applying for something particularly maths-heavy universities and jobs generally require a pass in either. This is a great thing for kids who need to demonstrate a functional level of numeracy but will never realistically need to use trigonometry.

English is a single course. There is no equivalent to Applications of Maths. There is no opportunity for kids to demonstrate they are capable of writing grammatically correct job applications without also needing to analyse poetry. AIBU to think there should be a second tier here too?

It’s a good point you make.

(you should ask for this to be moved to scotsnet as you will get more replies

That's the opposite to England, where you can do English language without literature. I dislike analysing literature but I passed ok, just not my best grade. But for a lot of English teenagers it's only really helpful to have the English Language GCSE.

Totally agree I said this so many times when mine was in S4. And my (dyslexic, book hating) child needed Higher English for some of his uni choices so we went through it again - he did manage to get it with the help of a fabulous tutor but it was soo painful!

The N4 is the fallback position though?

It’s a good point. I wonder what it could consist of that would require a N5 level response? Filling in an application for for example wouldn’t really be equivalent to N5. There N5 literacy component alone I suppose would be more akin to what you are describing

Thanks, I'm so frustrated. DS has ASD and is pretty good at science/maths but couldn't analyse a poem if his life depended on it. He's not even been entered for Nat 5 English this year so loses a Higher slot to it next year. I wish there was an access option for kids like him. He's perfectly fine at day-to-day English.

He has done the N4 this year. It's not enough for the likely university courses he'll aim for though (probably physics, maths or computer science).

I’m a massive fan of the Apps of Maths course - 2 out of my 3 wombles have done it at Nat 5.

it used to be called “Maths for life”

”English for life” wouldn’t need interpretation of poems or RUAE… but then it’s crossed into English for speakers of other languages

i don’t think a native English speaker getting a qualification in ESFL would really work

DS could (almost) definitely pass the ESFL course to get to uni!

Unfortunately, university level physics, maths or computer science need significantly better English that “writing grammatically correct job applications”.

But I see your point. There is a gap for something more functional, maybe more akin to the language skills that are needed for those types of courses.

Although I see that for computer science at Edinburgh N5 English is only needed at C, and at Dundee it’s not needed at all.

Of course, I realise there is a level needed. That said, poetry and metaphors are probably not necessary for computer science. I'm looking for an equivalence with the "Applications of Maths" course for kids like DS.

Completely agree @PoemsSchmoems

Tears and meltdowns here over the literature part. I’d be happy if there could be a functional literacy test relevant to the modern world, and the memorising of literary texts could be a separate paper for those who wanted it.

She now feels under pressure to take higher English in sixth year as she believes further education may require it. It’s going to be a miserable slog if it’s anything like last year.