To not want to pay cleaner in cash?

[brokenteddychair]

We have had a cleaner for about the last six months. She generally does a solid job and is reliable. I like her very much, she works hard and is trustworthy. She is currently the sole earner in her household as her husband doesn’t work (manual job). This is allegedly due to an injury but he is currently in his home country helping a family member with a renovation project so I’m a bit skeptical.

She has asked if we can start paying in cash “because the costs are burdening me and I need to ask clients to start paying in cash.”. This indicates to me that she is planning to under declare her income and therefore either not pay tax, claim benefits she isn’t actually entitled to, or both.

This is really conflicting me. I feel strongly that everyone should be paying their fair share of tax. I also don’t want the inconvenience of having to remember to get cash out every week. I have enough to do, that’s why I need to outsource help!

Would you suck it up or let her go?
YABU = cleaners are worth their weight in gold, just pay tax
YANBU = don’t be complicit in her fraud, find someone who will take bank transfer

She may not be working legally, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

I guess my point is that paying by bank transfer isn't a foolproof way of ensuring someone is paying their taxes, just like paying in cash isn't always a way of helping someone fiddle the tax man.

Both are legitimate ways of doing business and both can be abused.

Yeah, I guess she could. I’m not sure what your point to me is?

I'm not. Never claimed to.
It's in response to the poster who said that paying in cash always triggers investigation from HMRC as grounds for fraud

I wasn't really making one, just making a statement.

Complex tax reporting, lack of benefits such as sick pay and pensions, what about times of crisis? The pandemic for example how much financial assistance did the government give to support the self employed? Lower earning self employed have a harder time accessing benefits like UC

People assume that by ‘paying cash’ means she won’t be declaring her income and therefore not paying tax. It might be that she lives in her overdraft and doesn’t see the money or perhaps her husband takes out the money before she can. If you are able to, pay in cash and ask for a receipt.

Also, you can’t tell if an account is personal or business if it’s a sole trader, it’ll just be in their own name either way

No paying by bank transfer doesn’t mean someone is legit but it’s traceable so far more likely.

And I think it actually is op’s business when her cleaner has asked to be paid in cash so that she’s better off. The reason for that is very likely to be tax evasion so op is well within her rights to be uncomfortable about it and unwilling to be complicit.

That's not true - I have a business account and the PAYEE name is the name of my business.

As PP have said, there are lots of reasons why paying in cash could make someone better off. They don't all mean the cleaner is fiddling her taxes.

Ultimately the cleaner is free to ask for cash and the OP is free to say no and to find another cleaner if she's not happy with that.

Can you quote where OP says in her original post about the cleaner using a personal account? I can’t see that anywhere on the original post

I’m a sole trader and my “business” account is just a bog standard current account in my name. Perfectly legal. In the real world no one has ever questioned this. I declare all my income.

Struggling to follow your point about her residence status but sounds like you agree with me.

Yes of course bank transfer doesn't = legitimate, and cash in hand doesn't = illegitimate.

But if HMRC (or an accountant) ask to inspect your accounts it is, obviously, easier to hide income which is a few tenners in your pocket versus a regular transfer into your account shown on your statement. Surely no-one can disagree with that very obvious point.

I'm not saying it's illegal? I was just pointing out you can have a business account with a business name.

There aren’t lots of valid reasons (bank charges is nonsense - easy to get an account that doesn’t charge). By far the most likely reason in any given situation of a sole trader asking for cash is to avoid declaring earnings.

Oh absolutely, I agree.

But most people with low earnings are never going to be inspected by HMRC simply because it's not worth their bother.

OP, you should do what matters to you and aligns with your personal values.

You feel strongly that everyone should pay tax and you're worried about benefit fraud, so you should probably refuse to pay her in cash.

I couldn't care less personally so I would help her out and give her the cash.

Of course there are. You just don't agree with them.

As PP have said - maybe she's in her overdraft and doesn't "see" the money as it's eaten up by bank charges.
Maybe her DH takes a percentage of her earnings.
Maybe she has debts to pay that can't be taken if the money isn't in her account.

All legitimate reasons for asking for cash that don't involve fiddling the tax man and that would allow her to keep more of her earrnings.

Always pay the cleaner in cash, also my hairdresser and the tutor for my daughter and often workmen especially for small jobs. I don’t ask them about the tax they pay, that’s up to them.

perfectly normal to pay in cash. I should think she’s not earning much over the threshold for paying tax anyway. Don’t be an arse about it.

I don’t think PP was disputing that. I think they were talking about personal current accounts.

Maybe her husband has left her and she can no longer access the account? Maybe she’s trying to leave him and quietly saving funds?

PP said you can't tell if someone is using a personal or business account as a sole trader. I said you can because you can have a sole trader bank account in your business name :)

Where have I said I wouldn't pay cash I've said I would happily pay cash the whole way along

I know. I don't know what that's got to do with anything?

I'm morally opposed to tax dodging. From billionaires to cleaners. I have consistently voted accordingly. Also I feel the welfare state doesn't do enough so I donate a lot (e.g. to food banks).

Poor people don't have a different moral compass to rich people. I felt the same way I was working on MW. The way we address instability and financial disadvantage in this country is a redistributive public & health services system, funded by taxation. Dodging (any amount of) tax goes against that so I'm opposed to it.

Did you clarify HOW she'd be better off??