How would you change child maintenance?

[CountessaExplainsItAll]

I’d make it direct pay as standard, coming from PAYE wages, like an unavoidable tax which is paid when they are.

I’d make arrears payable over the next tax year. If unpaid, assets should be seized.

I’d increase the percentage of salary paid by NRPs with no overnights significantly. NRPs who do weekly overnights have much higher costs than those who don’t.

I’d stop the reduction for NRPs living with other children they haven’t created or adopted.

I’d make maintenance count towards means-tested child benefits. If the NRP legitimately can’t pay (for instance because the parent is dead) then the state should.

I’d punish self-employed tax evaders more severely (not sure exactly how).

You?

I actually think the nursery issue is separate. State-subsidised nurseries should be set up and council run offering cheap and quality childcare. Like in most of Europe. If full-time fees were £2-300 a month, we’d be far more economically active.

Set a legal minimum amount base rate for every child.

Then increase the amount based on the parents earning so the child doesn’t have a 100k parent and 30k providing a hugely different life style.

I wouldn’t lower payments at all for more children. You know you have children before you create more.

Quitting your job and living off investments or a partners wage wouldn’t get you out of your expected minimum payments, they become a forever debt much like hmrc debts it exists till it is paid or you die, it would upon death be a priority debt considered before inheritance.

Also no disinheriting biological children.

Yes this. It works both ways as well.

when my brother got divorced there was no way the house could be sold and split in two. His ex couldn’t afford to buy him out.

he would have been happy to sign over the equity on divorce in lieu of CM. He would have had his full income to get another mortgage/rent/get back on his feet. The CMS payments were roughly the same as the increase in mortgage she would pay buying him out.

so she would have been better off- lower mortgage, lower monthly costs, and guaranteed rather than worrying about any change in circs like db losing his job meaning no CMS.

db would have been better off as he was tied to that mortgage much longer than he should have been, which meant he had to live with our parents, and overnights were tricky.

people often object to sharing childcare costs on the idea that people will choose luxury for no reason. Guess what? Childcare is expensive no matter what you choose.

If the parents truly can’t agree on a provider, they can go to court and duke it out there. Most rational people can figure it out.

Dusting off my PhD in the Bleeding Obvious you cant take more money from the paying parent than they have

I agree with everything you're all saying. Obviously except the one about the itemised bill, my ex doesnt even see our child (his decision) but I know he would torment me re this if he could.

I also wish the whole process was more streamlined/quicker. My ex left in September so I applied for CMS in September, he didnt engage, so I got my first payment January. I didnt get the whole payment in January or February and he faffed about changing jobs, so it was changed to collect and pay for April, so since applying in September I'm now getting the correct payments 7 months later. And, sadly, I am lucky to get anything at all as I know a lot dont.

I would have CMS be mandatory. Then it rises inline with the NRP’s income every year.
Rather than my son’s dad guilt tripping about how little money he has( after constantly ordering food deliveries- my son tells me 😂) so I feel guilty suggesting that the amount he pays towards our son after only having him overnight 2 nights a month increases in line with what CMS says.
It’s been 4 years at the same amount and is £100 less than what CMS says which is the bare minimum.
he doesn’t buy clothes or shoes, take him on days out or pay towards clubs.

Shared childcare costs! They are enormous, and the calculations don’t seem to take it into account

I would stop the fact that NRP can use new partners kids to reduce any money

I would also not allow the money paid for child one to be reduced for new child 2 -3
sort your money out before having more kids

you have more kids with your new partner you don’t get a reduction on your maintenance because of this

I would add none payments to the NRP credit file. Making it difficult for them to get a house mortgage or rent a house or get any sort of credit in the future
I would want say 6 months of non payment treated like a CCJ

I would link it to passports / driving licence
so if you don’t pay for a certain amount of time then your passport becomes invalid / marked so you can’t go off on holiday

maybe add points to your driving licence as well 😂 I think they do this in the USA

if they are in a professional job like a police officer , army nurse doctor teacher
that the none payment comes up on a DBS check or something similar

basically I would make it as difficult as possible for a NRP to not pay for his kids and get away with it
there is no shame in not paying for your kids
and many NRP know that thr government via Benefits will pick up the cost

yes you will get the ones that don’t give a shit about there credit file and if they go on holiday - and they will always be around

but you will also get ones where their new partners won’t be very happy when they can’t go away as family on holiday or buy the nice new house or car cos they can’t get credit or their passport is blocked

we have to make it unacceptable that NRP be a man or a woman can walk away and partners family’s and friends often support them to do it. They need to feel the consequences of their actions
at the moment their is very little consequence to a NRP actions

give me a few more hours and I will think up a few more ideas 😂

If a self employed parent claims to earn £150pw to CMS then that should be the figure used when that parent applies for a mortgage, loan etc

no disinheriting biological children

what ever? Or just minor children?

my dad died and I inherited nothing. It went to my mum. If I had inherited she would have had to sell the house to pay me my share.

even if the child is abusive? Or as in the case of MIL she disinherited her daughter because when fil died she helped herself to everything in his bank accounts.

imo this is another reason for “clean break” as pp mentioned above. Sign the nrp’s share of the house/assets over to the children. Lower mortgage payments for mum, children get their inheritance an reaching adulthood, and it’s all guaranteed and can’t be changed.

Payments should be make to the RP by the child maintenance service (so government). They would be expected to recoup 100% of these payments from NRP. That way RP and children wouldn’t not lose out and CMS might actually use the powers that they have available to them to ensure payments were made.

I’d go with minor children.

This doesn’t make sense though…

If you affect credit so they can’t get a house where do they see the children? If you make them homeless then they aren’t going to be holding down a job are they?

same with points on license/dbs checks…if you make it so they can’t gain employment then how are they going to pay?

a paying parent will need housing and a job.

doing what you say is making it impossible for them to pay by punishing them for not paying by removing the things that mean they can earn money.

i’d be doing the opposite. Social housing and schemes for job seekers to increase disposable income so they can pay a higher % to the rp. Or have their children more so less cm is payable but rp can get back to work as well.

Carry it on post 18 for those going to university or unable to work due to illness or disability

And find a way to make the self-employed pay as they should (although how, I have no idea!)

All minor children?

what if the parents haven’t split- how does the surviving parent pay the children their share? What if they can’t afford to? There’s no cms from a dead parent so if there’s a big chunk of money she has to find to set aside for the kids how does she survive?

I agree with having automatic deduction be the norm. I'd also have it much more closely tied to tax in general, so that self employed people who fiddle the figures to avoid paying are treated as committing tax fraud.

That’s there problem to sort out
It’s not don’t pay one month and boom

if for example they haven’t paid CS for 3 -6 months ( pick a number )
then sanctions start
they will have plenty of notice
and obviously if they aren’t working then allowances would be made

But they would be well aware that not paying isn’t an easy option any more

I do my upmost not to speed in my car because i don’t want points on my licence and my insurance to go up or get a ban

I pay my credit card bill - even though I don’t want to because it will affect my credit score and affect my ability to get credit

generally the threat of sanctions work
if you thought you would lose your job or get a ccj because you willfully refuse to support your kids then that’s on you

If an adult goes away to university there’s no resident parent. Should both be assessed to pay?

I think adults living independently should be paying for themselves.

It would be held in trust for the children and their benefit. The partner / mum would also get her share. I’m just saying you cannot write out a minor child not that they get 100%.

I’d imagine the Venn diagram of self-employed maintenance avoiders and tax avoiders is a circle.

I'd front weight it so more was payable when the children are younger and need childcare and increase the percentage owed if a child has a disability that needs care significantly over and above the average child. I'd have the percentage calculated before pension contributions and other tax deductions. I'd set a minimum of £20 a night pre 5yrs and £10 night at 5yrs+ which can accrue as debt if the NRP is not currently earning. Payment would be due from the moment couples split up regardless of whether the resident parent claims, providing the NRP was aware of the child's existence (even if there has been no DNA test yet), and interest at the higher of inflation + 2%, or 8% per annum. I'd make it so that a resident parent can sue for any unpaid child support for 20 years after the child has turned 18.

I'd give CMS more teeth and more resources, they would not be allowed to write off debt, only the resident parent could do that. I'd also try to develop an easier way to assess NRPs whose lifestyles are significantly better than their declared income would suggest.

I'd provide a way for parents who are left doing all the grunt work to challenge an award based on nights at the other parent's house if they are actually doing all the child care (picking the child up from school, taking the day off if sick, covering holidays, paying for afterschool club or nursery on the days when they don't have them for the night, buying all the school uniform, etc.).

Self employed people fiddling figures are committing tax fraud though. No need to “treat them as if”, they are.

if they’re misreporting their income to avoid or reduce cms then their reported income for tax will also be reduced.

there are the mechanisms in place already to report tax fraud in this way. People often comment about paying dividends to avoid cm but that doesn’t work either- dividends are reported to hmrc as income, and if you aren’t reporting them it’s tax fraud.

so if you think the paying person is underreporting income that can be referred to hmrc for them to investigated. Whether those investigations are successful is another thing.

They could use the same systems that chase after non-payers of council tax, VAT etc

While it may well balance out over time. If someone can’t pay the child care costs on their own then they may have to give up their career as the cost of working is unaffordable. This leads to longer term damage to the person giving up their career.