LL came into my garden and removed my bird feeders

[goodoldsussexbythesea]

My landlady lives locally and often drives past my house. Early this morning, I was in my front garden, filling my bird feeders, and she pulled over and said that the advice from the RSPB is not to feed birds from feeders any more.

I told her that actually, the advice is not to feed them seeds and peanuts between May-October this year and I'm planning on following the advice so I was just using up the last of my seed now as it's not May yet.

She got really defensive and said "well, I just think it's important to follow the advice so I'd rather you didn't do it, please take the feeders down!!" which really annoyed me so I said, well it's not May yet so no, and anyway the advice is that you can feed them (small amounts of) mealworm and suet balls after May so I will be doing that, and she didn't say anything else, just drove off.

This really wound me up and I was annoyed for the rest of the day, took the kids out to a farm park and I arrived home an hour ago, and my feeders have gone out of my garden!!!

I checked my ring doorbell and she's bloody come into the garden, armed with a plastic carrier bag, removed my feeders and taken them away!!

I rang her three times back to back and she wouldn't pick up, so I whatsapped her and it immediately went to two blue ticks. I said - "Please return my bird feeders immediately, they are my property and you had no right to take them. I am following the advice but even if I was not, you still have no right to take my things."

After half an hour she replied "I am not currently allowing tenants to use bird feeders at my properties and have asked that they all be removed. I was passing so I removed yours for you, they are in safe keeping and will be returned in October"

My AIBU is not about who was in the right because I bloody well know I am, but whether or not I should call the police. I spoke to my neighbour about it and she said I shouldn't and that I should just replace them and remove the cost from the rent. She says she's obviously nuts and I shouldn't risk falling out with her

YABU - Don't call police, replace and charge her or do something else
YANBU - Call the police, report her for theft, and give them the doorbell footage.

She's a difficult landlady already. People should not need to tread on eggshells or live in fear of eviction when they aren't in the wrong.

RSPB say take them down because of passing on bird flu etc diseases . 1st May -Oct.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2lwvz1pl1no

What "should" be the case and what is the case are not the same thing.

The OP knows this, it says it in the OP

Permanently deprive doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Permanently deprive in theft law (Theft Act 1968) means the intention to take someone’s property and keep it, or treat it as one’s own to dispose of, regardless of the owner’s rights. It requires that the owner is permanently deprived of the specific property, even if the thief intends to replace it or its value later.

From The PCS. Day 1 in police training stuff.

Taking the bird tables is theft as she is putting conditions on returning it. She is treating OPs property as if it were her own - that’s what permanently deprive means.

Same as if your neighbours came into your garden and removed your items until winter. ‘Borrowing’ can also be theft.

Goodness removed is also theft - eg returning it when it can’t be used any more.

Ask for them back, promise very nicely not to put them back up in the garden then put them 10cm over the boundary in your friend's garden?

@goodoldsussexbythesea do you by any chance have a back garden?

This isn't theft, as the mens rea elements of the offence are not met. (Intention to permanently deprive, and dishonesty).

Hate to say it op, but unless you fancy moving, you're going to have to suck this one up. I feel for you, this would really upset me, YANBU to be furious.

Where's the dishonesty?

😂😂😂🎯

You are entitled to ‘quiet enjoyment’ and if it’s not in your agreement you have a right to feed birds if you want.
However, I’d wait a few days before escalating this. S21 ‘no fault evictions’ are a thing of the past on the 1st May. After that she needs a reason (rent arrears) to evict.

Well if it’s assessed on the Ivey test then it would be what is reasonable. Would a reasonable person consider this a ‘dishonest’ action. She’s gone into her tenant’s property and removed something belonging to her tenant without permission or notice.

Do you even know what dishonest means? It means

• lacking integrity
• Deceptive
• underhand

It’s not just about saying things that aren’t true.

Landlord hasn’t gone round and knocked on the tenant’s door to ask for it, she knew she would be given short shrift so she’s decided to skip that part. There is the dishonesty.

How rude! It's ok to disagree, but do you have to be such a dick about it?

No, this was not a dishonest act. Ivey made the overall test based on the perceptions of a 'reasonsble man's, (removing the subjective test per Ghosh).

However, this doesn't extend to the statutory defences. Based on the facts we have, the LL genuinely believes she is protecting birds. The defence only requires this, no objective test is needed.

So you're both rude, and incorrect.

...and do I know what dishonesty is? You'd laugh if I told you what I do for a living .

@TableTopTree you are ruder than the PP.

Oh good, an ad hominem attack!

Given the fact you're spouting the same nonsense as the PP, I'll be sure to place the correct amount of weight on your judgement 🙂

Do you have any actual legal authority for your position?

You called the PP rude (without any grounds).

I said that you were ruder than the PP.

And you are calling mine an ad hominem attack?

Ok, sweetie. Have a great day.

They spread disease and it's highly unlikely that she will clean them to the RSPB's standards, i.e. thoroughly enough and frequently enough, because basically nobody does.

They give unfair advantage to certain species, creating an imbalanced ecosystem.

Is that good enough for you?

I was the one that pointed out it is a different time scale.

The ruling didn't care how long at all, and set case law of what the definition of permanently deprive is linked to. There is nothing in law that allows just not having it to be linked to it, and that is a civil matter for you to take up by suing for the return, and any time lost. As far as I know the courts consider that to be the how to deal with this regardless of timescale, not an escalation to the criminal act of theft.

If you want time to be a factor, it would need to end in court to get a ruling mentioning it specifically. The cps aren't going to be sending it just to see, they will use what is currently considered if it gets to them, if the police ever thought it was enough to investigate and send a file to start with.

But I am happy to find I am wrong either for this example if she does report or other situations already happened, so I can change what I think.

What a stupid cheeky cow she is i understand you being angry id be fuming too...
While you pay rent that property is yours.
I wouldn't not pay rent or minus anything as you need the roof over your heads .
Is she usually like this in other ways .

Never mind the birds what about the rats they attract? You want to argue and call the police on your landlord?! Crazy better get prepared to be homeless

Oh thank goodness. Someone finally mentioned rats.

🙄

Realistically it's theft as you have Ring doorbell footage of her stealing them. Call 101 and ask them to send you a secure link to upload the footage.

@goodoldsussexbythesea
Can I suggest you give the Citizens advice a call. I volunteered with them for a while and they are very helpful in these situations and can help you with how to respond as firstly LLs need to make an appointment to visit this is in your tenancy agreement ( I am an accidental LL and treat my tenant with respect) and cannot remove your property without your permission also in the tenancy agreement. Don’t bother with police but get some free legal advice. She’s crossed the boundaries of acceptable LL behaviour…
Oh and well done for bird feeding!

Just Replace with bigger ones and screw them in.

Great idea! She'll flip 😆