AIBU to warn against unwise MN advice that could harm you in divorce cases?

[Seven7s]

I’m posting on AIBU because this is where the most recent wild suggestions were made. Please ladies be careful at some of the suggestions made here. I’ve seen some posters giving advice on another thread. Let’s not egg people on to destroy their own standing. I spend time working with women rebuilding themselves and have assisted/ am assisting several who are in the midst of their divorces as litigants in person. I’ve been to court some 30odd times in the last year. Many women don’t qualify for legal aid because they co-own their home but have no cash and can’t afford lawyers having been homemakers. And the first thing the man does is cut them off financially making it more difficult for them to even seek advice on how to obtain litigation loans or apply for LSPO. (Legal services payment order)
Here’s what I can tell you for free. The men’s lawyers typically find it easy to establish a case of irrationality against the women because of things they did whilst upset which no one had told them would damage their case. Pulling some examples from a recent trending thread let me show you some of these:

• Changing the locks to exclude a badly behaved spouse /Locking a co-owner out of their home = Unlawful eviction / interference with right to occupy. Whilst this is frequently done in movies and around the country, it is the quickest way to show the judge you are controlling. (Caveat unless the man is a physical danger to you and/or the children but even in that case, lack of any police records of you having called the police in the past means the man can dismiss it. That’s why the first time anyone hits or threatens to hit you, or behaves aggressively or spits at you; call the police, this creates an external record which will be invaluable. If your spouse is causing you stress and anxiety (3+ bad nights of sleep, tell your GP, also creates a record. Your GP wont judge, they’ve seen it all)
• Filming your drink hubby when he’s passed out/ incapacitated in a private home without consent = Misuse of private information / breach of privacy (the courts take a very dim view and won’t even allow whatever evidence you think this is)
• Filming him beside vomit for evidence and using footage = Controlling or coercive behaviour (Serious Crime Act 2015) [funny enough the law is different if you have indoor cctv and it catches this- the latter is incidental, the former is intentional]
• Seizing or withholding someone’s passport = Theft / controlling or coercive behaviour
• Defacing or destroying someone’s passport or ticket = Criminal damage / theft
• Going through your spouse’s stuff to find tickets or other such documents = breach of privacy, you can no longer introduce documents into legal proceedings if they are documents you found which your spouse had hidden. The court expects that if they were hidden, he has a reasonable right to expect privacy. Even if said documents show he has millions of £ stashed away.
• I could go on.

Whilst these can feel good at the time to do, will have huge consequences in a divorce. Please do not do anything like this. If contemplating a divorce your best course of action is to be whiter than white, if you feel you might need video evidence, install indoor CCTV in your home and pay for 6 month footage back up plan and download as soon as anything happens. Ring is better, Tapo is okay too but some models are not great. Believe me the difference matters it in court; Document everything and take protective steps before you file anything. I am not saying people should go round filing for divorces but it’s deeply frustrating to see what rings are run round a woman who has been a trusting wife and mother because they are not legal savvy and don’t have representation. As above maybe the same happens to men too so I don’t want to generalise. I’m only speaking from the experiences I know.

I’m not posting this to attract comments. Just a psa from a woman to women/ or anyone who is genuinely not an abuser and is enduring a bad marriage and considering doing any of the above. Don’t.

Thank you. That’s kind. I appreciate the others who have seen the intention and spoken up too.

fair points

I've seen and am on that thread you're referring to.
Some of the "advice" is absolutely batshit.

A legal expert can’t and won’t give advice here.

truth is no one- no one- knows what will happen in court until the judge rules on the day. No one can give “correct” advice. They can give potential outcomes

all OP has done is warn people against actions she believes are commonly accepted as advice because, as a mackenzie friend (a very valuable role) she has personally seen it backfire.

i can’t imagine what people think is actually wrong with this

rubbish. If its in your home, that you share, then they can't claim 'privacy' because they 'hid it' in a place you have easy access to.

They can, if they have a reasonable expectation of privacy (if the paperwork was in a locked desk, for example).

I expect to have privacy in my home- you think it’s ok for my husband to read my pension statements, clearly addressed to me?

and this is where a persons view vs the laws view can be two different things

Largely agree with you although havent seen that particular thread, except I dont think they are very good examples to use of poor advice given, because I dont see those particular pieces of advice given very often (the locks one I do and also taking a passport)

You are right to point out a lot of the advice about actions and behaviour and rights and responsibiities in cases like that is wrong.

Please don’t advise anyone to use AI as a proxy for legal advice. This is itself bad advice.

What are your legal qualifications OP?

If you bothered reading, you’d see the op has clearly said they are not legally qualified. They given their relevant experience and knowledge background 🙄

This thread is a classic example of two competing truths:
Truth 1: Emotional, retaliatory actions in divorce can damage your case
Truth 2: The law is not simplistic

Which UK country are you working in OP? The rules are different and in fact your post uses some American terms. Maybe you used AI which is not reliable?

Oh gosh not at all, to be clear I’m not telling people to seek legal advise on ai, just to double check what I’ve said on google or ai, if they don’t believe me.

Irrationality? Does it even matter now with no fault divorces?

And when it comes to the financial split of assets do people get cash knocked off of their legal entitlement if they went through their ex's post?

Well, madam, you were entitled to 50% of the house but I see here that you went through his pockets and pulled out a ticket so I'm going to have to deduct 5% for that.

To be clear. No one should ever use ai for legal advice.

there are technically four separate and slightly and very different legal jurisdictions in the U.K. any advice given will have to be location and circumstances specific.

it’s a really bad idea to take any sort of advice from anyone on here.

if you are divorcing, you should expect to have to pay for legal advice. There is no such thing as a mandatory free hour / half hour of advice either. some firms offer it but not all and it’s for no more than to scope out your case at a high level. You are highly unlikely to receive targeted advice in that session as the lawyer won’t have all the information because it’s just an initial appointment.

OP has had some really really strange responses on here. From the outset she never professed to be a legal expert and I have seen SO many examples of the types of advice she is siting.

This is a good set of ‘reminders’ when emotions are high and you want to respond with your gut.
My good friend is going through a terrible divorce at the moment and has been taken to task for doing some of these things.

Ive also got another friend whose exDH was found guilty of coercive behaviour and this was as a direct result of his ‘evidence’ that he presented that my friend was a terrible mother. He had gathered so much as was fuelled by anger that it was seen as harassment.

In a marriage money and assets are joint, and she has every right to go through things that are communal marriage financial affairs, that she would be entitled to half of. It's her business too. OP is giving really bad advice here.

OP I understand your motives. And I think even if you aren’t a legal expert you can rightly comment on what happens in courts.
I worked in immigration law for 12 years (for the civil service). I have to refrain from many online conversations about “no-one if illegal” for instance because what is specific to legal terminology and human concern can be nearly impossible to explain on sites like this, and therefore not worth it.
it is plainly out of date advice to do things such as take a child abroad (not relevant to your point) in unhealthy marriages, take passports etc.
It’s dreadful advice to suggest changing locks or locking someone out because they behaved badly. You get the required order to prevent them being in the same house. You call the police or rape crisis or GOs at whatever stage you are navigating is the best starting advice.
Ive been on the bitter end of civil proceedings for an assault (by an NHS employee) and the only repeatedly held against me was not reporting “immediately “. Of course I didn’t do that because of my life circumstances- severely disabled child dependent on care and very difficult DH (still stuck there, but I couldn’t tell the court/ the police because otherwise I’d be even more “delusional “ when DH turned up calm and etc in court.
You are correct in pointing out tv court and real court are very very different

Sorry for the typos, doing bedtime

I can see why people think they have a right to any document hidden under their roof. So did I and so did this woman. But do google it. If it helps your outrage is normal. I heard a someone say the following to commiserate with someone in a court corridor “it’s not the court of morals”. That stayed with me. Innocent people always expect it to be morally just. It isn’t.

My experience backs this up and I truly wish someone was out there helping women but in a coordinated way. I don’t understand how the Manosphere / rape academy/ old boys club can be a thing and there’s no such thing for women. Why don’t women help each other? Is it because we are too busy doing a million things for our families? It’s sad, women pour their all into a marriage and a bad divorce is literally the final straw for many. I’m sure it happens to men too. I have a dream for a bunch of pro female experts to share positive protective advice to other women the same way men appear to do negatively. It’s truly unjust what does happen in courts.

If your partner is less than honest and you’re contemplating a divorce please make a list of everything you’re thinking of doing and phone a solicitor for their free initial advice. Most will give 45mins to 1hr. Then use that hour to ask about your list. if anyone has genuine questions that I have seen, I can share my experience if it helps. I am aware many women spend ages contemplating divorce before they pluck up the courage. I also know some stay too long in abusive marriages because they are scared to leave. There are probono counsel out there but the demand is oversubscribed and they can’t file papers for you.

ps: in answer to a question above, I’m definitely in UK (not Scotland or Ireland). Don’t wish to disclose more than that nor should I have to. I’m conscious some of the people I’ve assisted or supported may well be here. It’ll be inappropriate for them to suspect it’s me in this space outside of court and wonder if I’m talking about them. I shared the drawer story because the woman told me to tell other women without naming her. Re AI, nope I had to search up the exact laws broken by the suggestions so I can quote them back because I have in person seen the following used against people - use of hidden documents, locking husband out, filming without consent. I checked the exact laws they were said to have broken. But those every single thing I’ve written is by myself. I’m flattered it’s considered AI. I am phd level educated (different field) and my primary school was an American international school so maybe that’s where the Americanism comes from but I am genuinely a human.

But again, search for yourself anything I’ve said that doesn’t sound right. Don’t outright reject it, search to see if it’s true. If you’ve already done some of them, there are reparative steps you can take.

Have a great week everyone.

Sorry to hear that. I think so many people are projecting indignation at me for suggesting they don’t have the right to do things they feel they ought to be able to do in their own home.

Yet no one has posted anything or any links suggesting they have searched a single thing I said up and found it to the contrary. That says a lot. But in fact given the vehemence, I actually had to double check myself a second time!

If you feel this way please know: I have no desire to screw you over or control what you can or can’t do. I’m just trying to help women (or financially weaker partners in an unbalanced marriage to be more precise) get the fair outcome they deserve in court but are often denied due to unfair tactical
play. That’s all.

f your partner is less than honest and you’re contemplating a divorce please make a list of everything you’re thinking of doing and phone a solicitor for their free initial advice. Most will give 45mins to 1hr.

Sorry op but this ^^ is very bad advice. You won’t get proper advice in a free slot and the solicitor won’t have all the information they need because they won’t have heard the other side’s view.

This may be ideal but with legal fees to get in front of a judge easily judging £70,£80k, many people are choosing to be LIP with AI support, often only employing a direct access barrister at the end, or not even then in some cases.

and yes the free 30 mins is another MN myth. But if you can navigate your divorce using mediators etc you can minimise legal fees to a couple of consultations.