AIBU to be shocked by public celebration of Michael Jackson?

[2021x]

Now the MJ film is out my social media feed is flooded with people doing the dances and talking about the movie etc. My local cinema is holding special events and screenings.

I personally have no doubt that he was a predatory paedophile. All the signs are there, especially how he talks about how he would never hurt a child and sharing a bed with them is the "most loving thing you can do in the world". He manipulated the world into thinking he had a "child-like persona" but was able to manage a music career worth millions... which someone who is naive would never be able to manage.

I also do not judge people who enjoy his music. It was very popular at the time, and would be associated with all types nostaligic memories. I listen to problematic artists all the time, but I don't pretend that they weren't abusive.

AIBU to be astounded that any business/media outlet would be seen dead even associating with him let alone celebrating such a horrifically abusive man.

Yup doesn't make the 'he was just reliving his lost childhood' excuse sound so great does it.

You're so obsessed with him and just missed all the documented moments of him getting teary and sulking when one of his little boys had to go? Of him pulling the boys back towards him whenever someone separated them? Him and Gavin being interviewed and Gavin explicitly saying Jackson told him if he loved him he would sleep in his bed? Yeah there's lots of videos of him behaving super inappropriate and weird with children.

Even weirder is that if he loved children soooo much why was he so enamoured with these boys over his own children if it wasn't anything weird? You're a father literally sending your own children away to sleep with other grown men (he explicitly said this) while you have sleepovers with unrelated boys? It's just so bloody weird and creepy.

I asked because I'd like to see the filming that shows him doing this behaviour as you said there was loads of this blatantly on camera. I'd like to watch it then maybe if it's out there id change my mind

Literally any and all of the documentaries that feature underage boys, did you not watch any of his documentaries as a super fan? Weird you'd hold such an opinion that nothing weird happened since you've apparently never ever seen him interact with these young boys?

I've watched loads of things about MJ. He's usually having fun, water fights, food fights, driving golf buggy, being pushed into pools, going on rides, hanging out in the zoo etc. never seen him weeping etc. that you described

Okay and sometimes he's telling children if they love him they'll sleep in his bed and other times he's getting emotionally upset and coercive when a child needs to leave him. You're welcome to look for those videos or I can find them when I can bring myself to go looking again if you'll actually tell us your opinion of said behaviour? Because you and others have repeatedly refused to comment on whether this behaviour in general is appropriate or not with children. So can you just confirm MJ or not is a man saying sleeping with children is a beautiful thing something that is neutral to you? If your neighbour told you his children regularly sleep with other men and that it's beautiful what would you think? Likewise if your neighbour got upset and sullen when your son had to go inside to go to bed?

Link me to the videos and I'll take a look. I think at this point I've watched everything about MJ so not sure where else I'd look. If the evidence is there I'd have to change my view.

Im not quite the idiot you think I am. For years I believed what the men said in Leaving Neverland and for that time I didn't listen to his music or anything for ages. Leaving Neverland was very convincing. But after years of seeing debunking films, watching podcasts about it etc. and watching things like the second Depp trial where my views flipped and I've been reading court files, watching all the documentaries (good and bad) and reading about it all in general at length and reading about both sides of story I am convinced that Leaving Neverland was just a one sided hit piece and wasn't balanced journalism at all. I just don't believe them now.

No I wouldn't let my child stay with any unrelated man. But having doubts about men and the risks they pose in general doesn't mean they are all abusers and doesn't mean MJ was.

His behaviour was inappropriate I agree. I wish he was warned about it/stopped before all these accusations started. But I can't be the only idiot who thinks (at the moment) that he is innocent of sexual molestation. The success of the biopic shows there are millions of people who probably think like me and want to celebrate the musical genius side of him.

I am convinced that Leaving Neverland was just a one sided hit piece and wasn't balanced journalism at all. I just don't believe them now.

I hate when people say things like this about documentaries, a huge amount of documentaries take a side and don't ever claim to be anything otherwise and most people understand that in advance, it's normally immediately obvious by the blurb what direction it's taking, they certainly don't try to make out that their documentary is balanced journalism.

His behaviour was inappropriate I agree. I wish he was warned about it/stopped before all these accusations started.

If you've seen all the MJ documentaries then you would know that people did warn him but he didn't listen and became even more defiant about being seen with boys.

No I wouldn't let my child stay with any unrelated man. But having doubts about men and the risks they pose in general doesn't mean they are all abusers and doesn't mean MJ was.

His behaviour was inappropriate I agree. I wish he was warned about it/stopped before all these accusations started.

See there's no point in spending my time finding you the videos when you don't understand that this is unethical abusive behaviour towards children. It's not about doubts or risks of 'some' men being abusers it's that a grown up asking children to sleep in bed with them is always an abuse of power let alone when you're the biggest pop star in the world. It's scary that you don't understand this, and I really hope you don't have children if you genuinely think there is a way for your child to be asked to sleep in bed with an unrelated adult and that it could not be harmful unless anything sexual happens. And he was bloody warned about it! Don't act like he didn't know what he was doing, he was asked about it again and again and what it insinuated and kept insisting it was beautiful. Literally the words and mindset of a pedophile.

@vickylou78 do you also wish maybe people had warned him not to own so many books and photographs of naked or semi naked young boys btw? I'm genuinely curious how much mental gymnastics you have to do to know he absolutely was told again and again how his behaviour towards children came across, possessed a lot of graphic/ hardcore pornography, owned books and photos of young boys and talked openly how beautiful it is to sleep with children (not his own, why?) and for his children to sleep with other grown men being beautiful and you're still have no inkling that sexual molestation is likely even if not a single child has made an accusation.

Its shameful frankly.

Ok so the books - I've read that these books were photography/art books (it's been overplayed in the press) He was an avid reader and was into art and photography etc. so that itself isn't evidence of anything.

But you do make valid points about his sleeping in bedroom/bed with children and him being insistent on carrying on with it even when other questioned it's appropriateness. This is where I admit I'm conflicted and confused as like you say, even if nothing sexual happened/ nothing sexual was intended and there were no accusations, it is still inappropriate and he was stupid/naive to do it even to want to do it. I am conflicted about that, I am. But I want to believe him when he always said he would never harm a child. I imagine this is the crux of it. Some people can ignore that conflict and carry on being fans and others can't. That was the point of Ops threads right? To try to understand why people would watch his biopic. I've tried to explain why I would.

Honestly I continue being a fan/watching the film with sometimes a thought at back of my mind that one day some credible evidence will be out there and I'll have to accept that I was wrong but I hope that won't come true. But it will take a miracle for me to believe Safechuck and Robson as I genuinely don't believe a word they have said they are proven liars. Will be interesting to see how their case against the estate goes.

@vickylou78
You do realise James Safechuck was only 15 when he signed a witness statement saying Jackson hadn't molested him?

Also James and Wade are not the only ones. Only one of the boys who has come forward or other witnesses needs to be telling the truth about Jackson.

And do you find Jackson himself to be a reliable truth teller?

There's a very good podcast about the allegations called telephone stories. After listening to that its obvious that he was guilty, even one of his own lawyers admits as much. Anyway,, regarding the "art books", one of the detectives involved in the case is also on it and said that those are books that are very commonly found in the homes of paedophiles. Also they were literally made by a paedophile to cater to that audience in a "legal" way.

@vickylou78
even if nothing sexual happened/ nothing sexual was intended and there were no accusations, it is still inappropriate and he was stupid/naive to do it even to want to do it. I am conflicted about that, I am. But I want to believe him when he always said he would never harm a child.

Do you realise though that people who sexually abused children often don't believe they're harming children? Some say exactly as Jackson that they 'love' children. Imo sleeping in bed with children in a room where you have pornography is harm and sending his own children to sleep in bed with an unrelated man was harm. I don't see the sense in believing a man who does such things on what he judges as 'harm' instead of what we all as a society know on a basic level that not keeping children safe is harmful.

And re the books, sorry if the 'art' you like to read/enjoy is of naked children that's evidence that you like to look at naked children. I really don't care if that's not evidence that he sexually molested children, just collecting photography of naked young boys is evidence that you're perverted. Again, you wouldn't be comfortable with your neighbour having a collection of books featuring naked young boys telling you he's an avid reader/ art lover would you? I still don't see where you or other MJ supporters explain why it's different if that neighbour was a popstar.

It’s obvious what he was, so I just ignore anything to do with him.

Yeah the books made by known pedophiles with photographs submitted by other pedophiles. It's not 'art'.

'Art'

Jesus Christ.

Also out of the thousands of books that Jackson had in his collection, those "art" books were locked away in a safe and not on display. Why out of all his books were those ones hidden? He knew full well what they were

okay, please enlighten me what was he found guilty of? or convicted of? I probably have missed something. I don’t know him personally, so maybe you knew him when he was alive or privy to some evidence some don’t have…or at least me

They can’t be hidden if you know about them…

But… they were hidden? When MJ was alive? Whilst he was interfering with children.

Jesus the cognitive dissonance is unbelievable. You didn’t know this man. He didn’t care about you. Why do you think he deserves your support against credible evidence that he was a child abuser?

@SwingTheMonkey You may find this helpful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

We know about them because they were recovered from his home and shown to jurors.