AIBU to be shocked by public celebration of Michael Jackson?

[2021x]

Now the MJ film is out my social media feed is flooded with people doing the dances and talking about the movie etc. My local cinema is holding special events and screenings.

I personally have no doubt that he was a predatory paedophile. All the signs are there, especially how he talks about how he would never hurt a child and sharing a bed with them is the "most loving thing you can do in the world". He manipulated the world into thinking he had a "child-like persona" but was able to manage a music career worth millions... which someone who is naive would never be able to manage.

I also do not judge people who enjoy his music. It was very popular at the time, and would be associated with all types nostaligic memories. I listen to problematic artists all the time, but I don't pretend that they weren't abusive.

AIBU to be astounded that any business/media outlet would be seen dead even associating with him let alone celebrating such a horrifically abusive man.

The comments about Corey Feldman on this thread are really distasteful.

Yes, he's a highly damaged individual. And this is part of the plausible deniability often depended upon by abusers: either their victims are from the kind of social backgrounds bound to ensure their stories won't be believed (cf. Savile and the children's homes or hospitals), or that they're so screwed up by the damage they sustained that society deems them 'mad' and likewise they are not believed.

Feldman has been shouting at the top of his voice for years - going back to long before the exposure of what a hotbed of abuse we now know the entertainment industry to be - and no one remotely listened.

My favourite film was once The Lost Boys. Star was responsible for more than one hideous flouncy skirt (and very Michael Jackson-style jacket) that I wore in my youth. Having heard Feldman's horrendous stories about what he and Corey Haim endured on that set; how the abuse messed up Haim to the extent that this possibly contributed to his addiction problems and early death; what Feldman endured and what he witnessed, is nothing short of heartbreaking. I now cannot watch that film (even for the sake of Grandpa; best character ever) knowing what two young boys had to suffer in order to make it.

Feldman is a victim. Abuse has ruined him and no wonder. He is worthy of compassion, not ridiculed or having his experiences once again discredited. He hasn't directly accused Jackson of anything. He's just refused to be part of the noise that routinely disbelieves victims.

For that, I applaud him.

Unfortunately yes. And it seems a lot of people don't understand this, and for this particular aspect that's fair enough maybe because these kinds of pedophiles aren't spoken about, however I think even if they were it would go in one ear and out the other going by the comments on this thread about these victims, 'why would he do this, why would he do that.....?' The impact of grooming on its victims has surely been discussed enough in society that people should understand that often the victims have very conflicted views about their abusers, and that they often will maintain some kind of relationship with them, and often do have some kind of positive feelings towards them too, but people just pretend they don't understand and that the behaviour just isn't something an abuse victim would do.

Amazing how when it comes to MJ everything is explainable because he 'didn't have a childhood' and was abused, but when it comes to these boys they are judged so harshly 🧐🧐

The OP and the others agreeing that he was an abusive man are my people.

I have an intense dislike for Feldman because he really isn't a nice person. I've heard this from someone personally who has worked with him on his most famous movie. He also wanted to video Haim's funeral and kicked off a mighty fuss when Haim's mother banned him from the funeral. He skirts around the issue of naming the alleged abuser because the money hasn't been right so far. He's a sick individual and I have no sympathy for him.

How could you have felt like a lone voice?

I only really commented to friends and family all of which didn't see the problem as 'no evidence was found'. My ex is a huge fan of MJ so it always fell on deaf ears.

The jury found him not guilty, and that is what I choose to believe.

Personally when I watch his interviews and footage I get nothing but pure and good vibes. Lots of signs that he was neurodivergent and when that's coupled with his non existent childhood and extraordinary fame, it's easy to see how strange/naive choices could be made.

Thoroughly enjoyed the film.

You're entitled to believe he was a paedophile and no-one can prove he wasn't. There is also no proof that he was.

However, I don't. The stories of abuse have too many inconsistencies and there are too many things which conflict with the narrative that he was a paedophile. Not least the fact that he knew Epstein (as most celebrities did) but never spent time on the island and is not mentioned in the files, and that he had multiple "friendships" with children who slept in bedrooms with him and insist that nothing untoward ever happened. Paedophiles do not, as a rule, pass up the chance to abuse children served up to them on a platter.

He certainly behaved inappropriately but there seems to be very weak evidence to suggest any of it was sexual, rather than just relationships he believed were friendships because he did not fully recognise the power imbalance.

It makes a lot more sense to me that he was trapped in a childlike stage of development and never fully became a real adult due to the horrendous abuse he suffered.

I do not enjoy his music at all, fwiw.

You will just have to accept that some people believe he was a paedophile, some people don't, and we'll probably never know.

The carter family are a special kind of vile.

Why? Because they don't fit your narrative?

I am not entirely sure what my 'narritive' or lack thereof has to do with the fact that the Carters are actually one of the most dysfunctional families out there - or were.

yeah @AutumnLover1990 has

Yeah I know right? Hitler was at best a mediocre artist but he pulled his country out of the great depression.

To be fair Andrew Windsor has never faced trial whereas Michael Jackson went to trial and was acquitted
I think that it is important to make this distinction

😂

There are many reasons why the victims would stay silent, loyalty towards him, fear of speaking out and so on, I mean they will be torn apart and abused more if they do come out and say he abused them, Paris will also get similar treatment if she ever spoke out.

It's not a rule that they don't abuse children offered up to them, there are plenty of pedophiles who will abuse one of their kids but leave their siblings alone, or just abuse one or some from a setting and not touch others.

Also out of those who say that he didn't abuse them for some they still mention grooming behaviour, Corey Feldman said his relationship with him was the standard grooming process, just up to the point of sexual abuse and it didn't go there, Another boy said that he and Sean Lennon watched porn in the room with Jackson when they were 10, Jackson was saying 'oh stop that's so silly', but the first thing anyone else would be doing is turning it off. Sean Lennon hasn't accused him of sexual abuse but his music video certainly seemed to suggest it, even though he said that instead it was just about how MJ discarded you when you got too old.

The Epstein files seem to focus exclusively on women and girls, and also he didn't need to go to Epstein island because he already had a system where he had easy access to kids, plus MJ had full 'relationships' with his victims, it wasn't just a one off. There's also no record of Diddy going to the island either, he also did his own thing when it came to abusing kids and adults. Epstein wasn't the only avenue for abusing kids.

There's a hell of a lot of tin hat conspiracies on here 😬🤦‍♂️

That first paragraph was a quote from another poster. I was rebutting it.

The difference with MJ, is that he was never convicted. If he had been, would the radio stations still play his music?! Gary Glitter as an artist was never at the level of MJ (not even in his wildest dreams) but you never hear his music played. Saville was never actually convicted, although it was deemed that he did abuse children, and you don't ever see an old episode of Top of the Pops with him as the presenter!

I like MJ's early music...Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad albums but the rest afterwards was dross. I still remember asking my Mum to stay up late so I could watch the Thriller video. Personally, I think MJ was as guilty as hell, and he did groom and abuse children but as an artist I still like his music.

Well, to to most of us, a grown man taking small boys in his bed says only one thing.

But, in America it all came down to stardom and his colour.

I don’t want to know about his shows, films or records. 🙄

Such as?

It's been proven to beyond all reasonable doubt what Gary Glitter and Jimmy Saville did and that's exactly the point. These kinds of crimes, when committed by celebrities surrounded by as many people as celebrities are, leave evidence and witnesses. All the evidence suggests that MJ had an inappropriate understanding of adult/child boundaries and was not capable or willing to be the adult in the room when children were present - the porn story you mention is exactly that. There's no evidence it ever crossed the line into SA. You also say he groomed Corey Feldman but then never abused him...well in that case it wasn't grooming. What was he grooming him for? To be his friend? Why would a paedophile groom a child and then not SA them?

Yes and quite a natty dresser.

There are a couple of other important distinctions to note here, though. Unlike in the UK there is a statute of limitations for crimes of this nature in the US. By the time Giuffre brought her claim it was already statute barred, meaning that in the absence of further evidence (i.e. any material that might have come out if he'd had his day in court), her sole recourse to any form of justice was through the civil courts. And the only form of recompense via that route is financial. Compensation is meant to reflect the level of damage caused and what might have been lost to the claimant, which she might not have suffered had she never become a victim.

Most civil cases settle out of court. Lawyers will generally advise claimants to accept any settlement that equals or exceeds what is likely to be granted in court. If a claimant holds out for more it sometimes doesn't go down very well: the job of the civil courts isn't to determine guilt or innocence but to compensate. And by many accounts the payoff in this case was substantial.

Unfortunately, operating as an avenue for victims to get their voices and their stories heard was never the function of the civil courts. But a criminal trial was never a possibility in the circumstances, particularly as (despite Windsor's promise to cooperate with the FBI in the US) he couldn't be made to talk.

There are all manner of reasons why people - often rich, powerful men - walk away unscathed from these situations.