To think ParkRun need to consider banning racers?

[justletusrun]

My local parkrun has been overtaken by drama this week, after some men attended and basically turned the entire thing into a glorified race for themselves. They were pushing people out of the way, swearing at them and shouting at them to let them through.

I always thought the point of parkrun was to go and enjoy a 5k run and some socialising after. But it seems that across the country they’re being overtaken by people who are obsessed with “winning” it and getting the PB as a “chip time”.

i understand the sense of achievement you get from getting a PB, but I don’t think parkrun is the place to do it. Myself and many other women who have been attending for years are now considering not going again because it is so unpleasant.

AIBU to say they need to clamp down on this, before it becomes a big men’s club?

Our local park run asks faster runners to start at the front. It seems this works in lots of places so maybe suggest it to your local group?

No one should be pushing or swearing though, that's unacceptable in any run (or just life tbf).

My pet peeve is runners who aren't part of an organised event expecting everyone to dart out of their way. There are two women in particular at my local park who annoy me weekly. They choose to run in a park popular with parents and dog walkers then get huffy if they have to sidestep a toddler or older person and their dog. They have no problem barking orders at people to get out of their way on public footpaths (though I've yet to see them push anyone or swear, luckily).

P.s. I think dogs should be banned from park runs. There are now too many people having dogs with them, often poorly controlled, it's dangerous.

Staggering runners by time is also an easy way to fix this - but the problem arises when people race off and then walk. Admittedly this is more of a problem in juniors. The first 50 m of a junior parkrun can look more like a jungle stampede. I feel quite panicked when there are tiny people in the middle of the throng. But I’ve got lots of opinions about start lines and the need for a wide start to minimise the chances of this happening…

reach out to director. they can bring up at initial chat and have volunteers on high alert

You need to report it to the run director, nothing wrong with trying to get a PB but shoving and swearing is unacceptable. Mr Monkey is director of our local parkrun and he makes sure they always start with a intro including asking people to be respectful of other runners and park users and ensuring faster runners to start at the front.

It’s always been like that so whilst pushing and swearing isn’t acceptable, the fact that times are involved will mean people want to get personal bests. Courses, busy ones more so, with 3+ laps have more issues than those with only 2. They had to ban dogs and buggies here because there simply wasn’t room and it’s capped at 350 participants, fine in winter but come summer regulars find themselves unable to take part because of tourists, and the tourists are more aggressive and font realise there are pinch spots

Or just time yourself on your watch!

I live in an area with a huge running club and a parkrun with a tough hilly route close by. I am a runner but not fast.

I have always been bemused by this image that parkrun is for everyone, gangs of friends, buggies etc because it certainly has never been the case around here. I never run it but occasionally volunteer and I often see the photos; the same faces, the same names in the shoutouts etc.

We do sometimes drive half an hour to another beautiful park for the parkrun followed by breakfast. The atmosphere is very different but still competitive and average number of attendees s are 300. There's a female international runner who coaches around there and she is often there with some other elite athletes. There are pacers and because they are present people naturally fall into their time zones.

I think in your case the atmosphere you've been enjoying will not remain as once it gets competitive that's it. But could you volunteer and look to make it enjoyable for everyone; rules read out and enforced, time wave start points, direction about overtaking on the right etc.

At all the Park Runs I have done, the fast runners start at the front. Then they can race to their hearts' content and everyone else trots along at the back.

But surely a park run PB is nothing special, and is always going to be slower than a solo run? I’ve been running for nearly 30 years, and I’m certain my speed would be better on my usual solo run than if I was running through a crowd of people on a busy park.

If people genuinely want to improve their pace, they’d run alone or in small groups. That’s why I think trying to get a PB on a park run is basically showing off.

Parkrun absolutely started as a race, it was a timed trial for people to baseline their fitness and try and improve week on week.

Obviously shoving and swearing isn't okay but it wouldn't be in any other race either

I don't think this a case of people ruining it by trying to 'turn it into a race', it's a couple of pricks who behaved badly at your event and should have been pulled up by the Run Director, if they had seen it (you can't have eyes in the back of your head, I've done this role).

"I think the reason they don’t is because they know they only stand a chance amongst women and the retired community!"

Not sure this is how personal bests work!

It's much easier to push yourself in a crowd/ in competition with others /a race

You'll rarely PB on a solo time trial. Also for want of a better phrase, Parkrun provides official times which are recorded on Power of 10 (for those athletes who care about it) and it contributes to ranking.

So people do race at parkrun. It started as a time trial for serious club runners and it's never really lost that.

However I agree that behaviour is seriously out of order and fast runners need to pick their parkruns carefully & perhaps avoid looped courses or courses with pinch points.

In mine, you have to run three laps so you very much do get elbowed and pushed by the fast runners who “lap” you.

Respectfully if you’re doing parkrun as your timing you’re not an athlete

Exactly. There are a million phone apps (not to mention smart watches) that record time, speed, steps etc. If people really want to track their timings, they don’t need someone with a stopwatch blowing a whistle like a school sports day!

As I say, it sounds very performative.

I run 5 miles 3 times a week. I have slow days and fast days. Occasionally I manage a really fast run. The only person who knows this is me. I don’t need someone in a hi-vis jacket to validate it.

I think it's quite cheeky of large groups of runners to take over a park in this way and disrupt the enjoyment of other park users.

In practical terms banning racers doesn't really work does it? People of all abilities 'race'.

I do think there needs to be some kind of centralised response to this sort of poor behaviour though, especially with park run tourism. I also think people should be obliged to volunteer at least once a year.

Surely if a run director reports poor behaviour then an email from parkrun hq can go out giving a ban on being given a time for x amount of weeks or indefinitely for repeat offenders? Same for the never volunteer-ers. If you've run X number of runs over a year but not volunteered then you don't receive a time until you volunteer.

I feel very sorry for the run directors and core teams who have to deal with this shit. I imagine addressing the behaviour comes with a load of verbal abuse.

Why is that? We have lots of club runners at ours and they definitely are athletes.

Parkrun is a longstanding thing, and it’s great. It’s just a few dicks that ruin it.

Reading about pinch points and looping and how that definitely means elbows and pushing... I'm not a runner, but are elbows and pushing a normal permitted part of running? I would hate it and feel endangered.
If, as I'd hope, running is a non-contact sport then surely the very first thing you as an organiser do is point out the pinch points and note that there are cameras there and people making contact will not be allowed to place. Multiple offences leading to a ban.
I mean I get you can't have eyes everywhere, but you can have eyes in the obvious places.

This is part of the issue I think. A lot of people who do something as a hobby trying to paint themselves as athletes, but the most “competition” they’re willing to take part in is parkrun

What is wrong with being performative? Competitive sports by its nature is performative. The whole point of the Olympics is performative. Yes, this is on a Very micro level but I’d be chuffed honestly to have my name in the top 10 of a park run.

My nearest PR is three flat laps in an otherwise hilly area and it's overwhelmingly people in club vests who yell at slower runners and push past. There's no point trying to change it and it has put my two teen daughters off trying to run now. I drive to a more distant PR now, but its hilly so my girls don't want to come with me. The local run does feel very male, aggressive and excluding.

My local park run is a local playing field and its three laps . We get all sorts , club runners to pram pushers. Im a walker and I aim for a PB every time :)

Its a timed run, so why would you not aim for a PB?

We group at the start, fastest first, walkers last , walkers know where about they are going to get lapped and move to the side . We are all aiming for a PB, not a dander, catching up with friends , blocking the course

Pushing and shoving isnt on. But again, why was there a need? Are you just merrily grouping up and chatting away oblivious to other users?