To ask for advice on an employment issue

[Vinividivici]

I am currently on sick leave, as is described in another thread. The cause of this is work stress. I am fearful that my employer may take retaliatory action if / when I eventually have to return. Would it be reasonable / strategically wise to send a list of grievances (basically a description of what led to this)?

I'm not sure whether there's anything that would matter to an employment tribunal. My issues are:

• documented historical bullying which seemingly was not addressed at the time.
• my job title is far, far too low for my skills, abilities, and portfolio of work. I was on the verge of promotion two years ago when suddenly the global policy was changed to exclude the option of promotion. Since then, I have been given work that is two levels above my official pay grade and expected to get on with it without any support. My job title means that people treat me as if I have little value and I don't have authorisation to do things I need to do in order to be effective. I am humiliated every day. I have raised this with management several times.
• my new portfolio of work was previously owned by my bully. It was handed to me without any support or guidance, other than having to ask my bully for help
• my manager refuses to have 1:1s and I have to arrange ad hoc meetings for anything I want to discuss. When we meet to discuss work projects, this is a clear imposition and I am treated as if I am stupid or annoying. Typically my manager has not read my updates in detail. Occasionally my manager has held specific pieces of the work hostage for a couple of weeks (eventually doing nothing and finally allowing me to take it over again), causing big delays.
• as a result of the above, I feel constantly insecure about the work and whether i will be blamed if something goes wrong due to my manager's lack of communication and occasionally chaotic approach.
• recently I took time off to get married. When I tried to get cover in place 3-4 weeks beforehand, I was told in an annoyed way that this was too early. When I finally was told who could cover, there were only a few day s left before my wedding. A very senior person who had to cover some of my work was hostile and angry.

When I faced the prospect of going back, I spent several days in a state of severe depression. I could not face it.

It seems to me that none of this is discrimination or illegal. Is there any point writing this all out and sending it to HR and my manager?

Just to be clear, the appraisal grade was apparently made around the time my manager told me that she already agrees I should have a promotion, so much so that she assured me that I didn't even need to bring it up. I'm not just entirely delusional.

This all sounds right. I wish that I felt less terrible.

To answer your direct question no, there is no benefit in sending a list of grievances now and it will probably make things worse for you. If you are on long term sick leave for stress and not a top performer in their eyes they will already be discussing ways to manage you out, it’s just a case of when - this is how investment banks work and particularly in this terrible economy, in house legal teams are looking to cut headcount. If they wanted to promote you and retain you they would have found a way (assuming you’re looking at promotion to VP as opposed to Director/ED or whatever the equivalents are at your org, director and above is obviously much harder and it would be unreasonable to expect that after only a few years at a bank despite PQE unless you are an absolute star performer). So as others said, get onto applying for new jobs asap. Be aware however that anywhere you apply to will likely only offer at your current title (again PQE not relevant - at my org we regularly hire 15PQE at junior titles if that is their current title) and it will probably take several years for a promotion in this climate even if you do gel with the new manager/team, so it might be best to look for a place with a flat structure if title is important to you.

I have always had stellar performance reviews before in this place, so the idea that I am just not seen as a high performer is a mindfuck. Being told that I am not worth VP level honestly makes me feel like I should quit the law and give up on life.

For context, many other people in the department are off on sick leave at present. I assume all with stress, though I don't actually know.

Edit: thanks for your advice

@bobsburgerz Be aware however that anywhere you apply to will likely only offer at your current title this is exactly why I have been killing myself trying to get a promotion.

Idk why they would have led me on. I know that others have basically been told that promotion isn't happening, while I was reassured.

I know it’s hard, but I would really try not to take the lack of promotion personally, it’s likely not a reflection of your performance but a combination of things. It’s easy to give someone a great review (and not saying at all yours wasn’t deserved, I’m sure it was or they wouldn’t give it!) but much harder to get budget for promotion even for very strong performers. Promotion as an in house lawyer is notoriously difficult, the things we make people go through where I am is quite frankly beyond belief sometimes, requiring them to work two jobs effectively in the years leading up to the promotion, requiring long hours reminiscent of being a private practice lawyer in magic circle or equivalent and even then, the promotions are never guaranteed as policies change, senior management change their minds and so on. I’ve worked at several different banks over the years and they are all the same, so for your own peace of mind if you can find a different role I would.

Would you feel up to arranging a meeting with your line manager now, with a view to handing in your notice (have your resignation letter ready). Explain why you are resigning (feeling undervalued, lack of promised promotions).

I think you will feel better for taking back some control, it gives your manager an opportunity to make amends if they want to keep you (and your indication that feeling undervalued is what's caused your current sick leave would suggest if they 'fixed' that you'd be happier to stay?).

I really think you will feel better and more empowered if you take the situation back into your own hands. Do it today.

And if you do leave and start looking elsewhere, may I gently suggest that finance might not be the kindest place to work, and perhaps you should consider a different industry?

All of my experience is banking-related, but I agree that people are not kind and that I may have too soft of a nature for it.

So I don’t think they’ve led you on. From
what I can see you’ve got a shit manager who will say any old nonsense to get themselves out of a tricky conversation and you’ve believed them/ taken it too literallly. Obviously this isn’t great and it’s bad management but as you know (as a lawyer) people saying things off the cuff doesn’t count and the only time you will get a promotion is when a contract has been offered and you’ve signed it

I have a number of friends working in a similar field. I suspect what’s happened is that just somewhere along the line someone has decided you’re not the right fit for this bsnk. It doesn’t mean that you’re a bad lawyer or that you’re an impostor, it just means that this institution isn’t for you. Perhaps in the past when budgets were bigger this wouldn’t have happened but quite a lot of of the big banks are finding things a bit tight, and therefore people that might have got promoted a few years ago are finding it much more difficult. AI has also taken a lot of junior lawyers’ work away which is contributing.

Most of my friends have real difficulties during their careers. All excellent lawyers. Many have been bullied, some have been made redundant, some have had to leave after stress. They did manage to pull through though and a few years down the line most are in much better jobs, and are very grateful that they left the toxic workplace/manager.

If I were you what I would be doing is trying to extend sick leave for as long as possible (although bear in mind they will start to try and manage you out at some point) and then seek a financial settlement not to return. In the meantime I agree you could do with some kind of counselling/talking therapy because at the end of the day this is just a job, it’s a way to make money to support yourself, and it’s not a full reflection of your worth as an individual.

You need to find a way to move on from this, recover, and then think carefully about what you want to do next. Personally, I have never wanted to work in an investment bank because I know their reputation as being completely toxic. After this experience maybe you could consider other legal roles, for example perhaps working for the government, changing your practice area, or even becoming a consultant (like a freelancer). But I don’t think you’ll be able to decide this until you’ve moved on from the negative thought pattern associated with this workplace.

I may do this when I feel a bit more grounded x

honeslty I've been there.

Go sit in the sun and be near some trees.
If you are considering resigning ask for a conversation without prejudice first.

Is there a language barrier op? She’s said you’ve done some new activities, and were assessed on those and were average, she never said you’d been assessed as if you were promoted, she said irs similar to when promoted.

There is no language barrier. I have been doing very difficult and advanced work. She seemingly was assessing me against someone who is already experienced in this work.

Edit: and actually, she didn't say I was average. She said that I am near the top of the bracket for meeting expectations but that it is to be expected that I am not yet stellar due to learning new things.

I was thrown into the deep end with these projects

If you are looking for some sort of fairness or evidence that I am incompetent, you honestly probably won't find it. I think that it's just a toxic environment where people are exploited.

How much of the list of things to do today that a poster kindly wrote for you did you get done? CV written? First job applied for?

I am a senior in house lawyer with most of my career at large FIs.

If they haven’t promoted you yet they aren’t going to. To get promotion you need strong sponsorship from your management chain and - rightly or wrongly- you clearly don’t have it. You have no right to it even if that understandably injures your pride. My suspicion is you’ve thought the work will speak for itself and you’ve not played the corporate game thoroughly enough but I think too late to fix it easily - this is quite common especially with women.

I think you have two options both of which terminate your employment. First is to say screw this and quit. You don’t get to pick whether you get gardening leave but you could potentially remain off sick. You almost certainly have a PILON clause in your contract so they could choose to pay you out and terminate your employment very quickly. Draws a line under it quickly, you can move on with your life.

Option 2 is to get a really good and experienced specialist solicitor and they write to the employer as to how they have breached their duty of care to you and that has caused you to be ill with stress etc. you’d need to work carefully through all the facts with a lawyer to work out what you can use as lots will be irrelevant and a laundry list of all gripes won’t help. Then you try and settle for a bit of money, gardening leave, agreed reference. make sure your lawyer advises FI staff frequently and so understands SYSC 22 reference obligations.

Option 2 may get you a better deal financially but it will come with stress and uncertainty. They’re not going to write back and say sorry she is right we’ve been terrible how can we make amends. They will probably say - almost as a matter of course - that you weren’t very good at your job, didn’t respond to feedback, the workload was perfectly acceptable and you simply weren’t promotable. Ie you are the problem not them. That will be very tough to read and you sound fragile so think carefully before this route. But if you are willing to spend a little money a paid detailed consultation may be worthwhile to determine the best path.

Thank you. You're probably right that the best thing for me is to draw a line under it. I can't really bear being told that I am not a good lawyer.

Your comments about strong support from management resonate. From the start, my former friend / bully put me in a terrible position. She was two levels above me and in a much better place in terms of the local org chart.

I had NO idea what I was getting myself into with this job, in terms of being devalued and exploited v. pushing for promotion from the start. My manager was in a different country / subsidiary. Then that manager was managed out of her role and was replaced by a 'nice' person who really likes me but who also won't do anything to support his direct reports. He is now being managed out. My current manager claimed me as her own about a year ago. She may actually have planned to promote me, but I have just run out of patience with the entire process and the toxicity, even though I have some very kind cheerleaders and supporters.

Someone up thread mentioned people doing two jobs for years to obtain a promotion. I am watching that happen with people who are really, really intelligent and capable. I should probably take responsibility for the fact that this is not something I want or am constitutionally able to accept.

Anyway, I appreciate your compassionate and realistic take on this.

This! In spades - I said as much on her other thread.

@Vinividivici

Leave this job, they have no respect for you or your work, and going off sick gives them more ammunition, you haven't been promoted and aren't going to be either.

Leave, go and get a less stress full job.

Your head is clearly not in the right space for this type of role

am watching that happen with people who are really, really intelligent and capable. I should probably take responsibility for the fact that this is not something I want

Do you want promotion or not??

I am currently working on refreshing my CV with help from a friend. There is a role at my previous employer - a government agency - that I hope that I could attain. (My friend still works there).

My plan was always to work for government anyway, and I took my current job due to the urging of my former friend / bully. It was probably the right time for me to take a break from my former employer, but I would happily return to the right role.

Other posters are correct that I am probably not suited to a super cutthroat environment in which people are exploited as a matter of course. I do not have the natural defenses for it, nor do I have the necessary raw ambition. Or the time, due to needing to support my child.

I wanted a promotion, but I had a breakdown of sorts realising that (1) they are never giving me one and (2) I had to face going back into that toxic environment, where everyone is overworked and angry (and therefore mean) all the time.

Edit: and I definitely don't want to graft on a job far above my official pay grade for two more years to hopefully prove that I am worthy of having an appropriate title.

Ah I see, you arrived from a government agency. Well yes banking will often be a shock after that with its expectations, treatment of employees, work-life balance standards and processes. I’m sure the agency had its politics but they would have been different.

To get through promotion, even with management support, you would need to demonstrate you were already operating at next grade. Not that you would if promoted. From a bandwidth, quality and skills perspective. Legal skills are taken as a given, to move up to VP the expectations on ownership, influencing, stakeholder management, driving results etc are different and higher. Management simply won’t want to take a chance on promoting someone otherwise.

On the flip side please don’t assume you will be a shoe in to get a job at your old agency. Very carefully understand the recruitment process. If they follow civil service style questioning essential you carefully prepare so people can actually mark you highly. People get caught out in this frequently.

As the previous poster has said, please make sure you research the format of your answers and don't fall into the trap that they know you already, otherwise your self esteem will take a further beating. Government agencies are very keen on STAR formats and score your answers against their criteria. Highest score wins in some departments

Yes, I am very conscious that the application process is extremely competitive. It's fairly awful even preparing my CV, as I am plagued with self doubt and memories of many times when I have felt that I lack the talent and skills to succeed.

I am trying to draft my CV so that it will make it through AI screaming. If I manage to slip through, then I will have to revise on the STAR format and learn the basics of various regs that I have never actually worked on, in order to appear halfway intelligent at interview.

Edit. *AI screening. Though I have left the autocorrect in as I find it evocative