Is Kier Starmer a liar?

[catspyjamas1]

Is Kier Starmer a liar - yes or no?

It's a simple question. I can't see this on the trending threads, so asking the question.

YABU: He reliant on civil servants to share information and is in the clear, he didn't know what he didn't know.
YANBU: He's the Prime Minister. Who happens to get briefings and knew.

Well, perhaps if you are simply money orientated, and you didn't care a jot that your competence had been called into question on the public stage so Starmer can eek out the death throes of his premiership a little longer, you'd be just fine.

Yep. You’d have to be totally wedded to Starmer and Labour to think what he’s done is ok. He got it wrong.

Olly Robbins has made it clear that he was not affected by no. 10 in the decision he made to approve Mandelson's security clearance for the role. It was his decision as head of the FO.

Olly Robins also made it crystal clear that this is what doing his job properly entailed. You don’t sack someone before the facts have been properly established, unless you have a highly developed political kneejerk reflex and no interest in following fair processes, which is ironic, considering why he sacked Olly Robins.

I think the situation was rounded up factually and fairly earlier, as above.

OMG - what a day for Labour!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q9xg0qlvxo

Did he lie here?

'Speaking at an event in Essex, he rejected claims the party had scaled back its ambitions as an election approached, saying the party had a "big, bold plan" but "we need first steps".

The six "first steps" are:

Sticking to tough spending rules in order to deliver economic stability

Setting up Great British Energy, a publicly owned clean power energy company

Cutting NHS waiting lists by providing 40,000 more appointments each week - funded by tackling tax avoidance and non-dom loopholes.

Launching a border security command to stop the gangs arranging small boat crossings

Providing more neighbourhood police officers to reduce antisocial behaviour and introduced new penalties for offenders

Recruiting 6,500 teachers, paid for through ending tax breaks for private schools.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69016719

No

I think he has let himself down and has gone down massively in my estimation as a result. It’s not important to me whether he actively lied, passively lied, or was just so keen to look politically savvy and decisive and not weighed down by his own bureaucratic and technocratic reputation that he threw all caution to the wind - the fact is, he has sacked someone for a situation created by his own political mistakes.

It's a Labour / left wing trait. Throw others under the bus if it saves yourself. Starmer is doing it here, he's done it before. Reeves did it ref the economy / budget fiasco, Rayner blamed the estate agent for her tax evasion, Miliband stabbed his brother in the back for personal gain. I'm sure there's more. Taxing more is in their DNA as is being two-faced / betraying each other.

Always blaming someone else applies to politicians of all types - they all always have someone else to blame. It’s pretty ridiculous to claim it’s a feature of the left, as though the right does not behave in this way when Trump is such a fine example of someone who always has to be right and anyone who disagrees with him has to be wrong. The Tories had a lovely time blaming the EU and Labour for everything until that fig leaf was removed to reveal their own corruption and ineptitude. Reform are even worse still, because they have nothing to stop them being lying, corrupt, manipulative arseholes, given that, thank God, they haven’t to date had their hands fully and openly on the levers of power. The US is a good example of the sort of shit we would all end up in if they did take over.

You're probably right. Perhaps its more that Labour and the left always purport to be holier than thou, adults in the room, honest as the day is long, blah blah vomit blah. It's worse because they pretend to be good. Machiavellian, wolves in sheep's clothing etc. vomit.

This ^

He screwed up but he will not just own it. The technical wrangling to get out of accusations of lying is just cringeworthy.

I just cannot vote Labour anymore. The last (general) election was pretty much the first time I haven't voted Lab as I am GC. But I was coming back around to them as there is a threat from Reform where I am.

But I just cannot wear this behaviour, it's so pettifoggingly dishonest.

A well informed HR lawyer working for the civil service stated on LBC radio programme that Starmer would definitely have received the briefing across his desk. He is a liar without doubt. Mandelson was appointed - to coincide with The Donald’s inauguration despite the vetting red flags. Starmer is the most divisive PM the UK has ever appointed.

@juggleit
More divisive than Thatcher? More divisive than Johnson?

Then why did Robbins say he hadn’t?

Yes. Starmer has not got the strength of character to act decisively and swiftly and then when he does act It’s by deflecting as in throwing Robbins under the bus.
He forgets that his decision will put senior civil servants on high alert and if they want to make cabinet ministers lives difficult they certainly can. My goodness those red boxes are going to be full to the brim with minutiae.

Yes....next question..

They all are listening to Pat McFadden.

Sounds like he's lost the Civil Service now, which no longer trusts him.

As Liz Truss found, once you lose them, your days are numbered.

Olly Robbins is right and Starmer wrong, the cabinet and any Labour MPs backing him regardless is hopefully the end of them.

Truss didn’t lose the civil service, she lost the Tory party. As did Johnson.

No not quite! But I was certainly engaged in the politics of Campbell alongside Blair.

I can’t comment on Ingham, Thatcher’s press secretary (quick Google), as I don’t know enough about him. But Campbell always struck me as the arch spin doctor, savage, controlling, and deeply dismissive of any dissent. He was also essential to the success of the Blair project.

Interesting to now have insight into his inspiration and possible role model.

If he misled parliament he has to resign. Simple as that.

Maybe he ought to provide the civil service with suitcases of wine.

Johnson did this and got away with pretty much anything up until the civil service was found out.

If those at the top in the civil service are incapable of professionalism, and impartiality and can be bribed with wine and parties, the whole system needs an overhaul and they need to be seriously considering their behaviour. I'm disgusted that this is even an argument being bandied around.