To consider distancing myself from a friend over her views on renting and benefits?

[TheGentlePoet]

I’ve had a conversation with a friend that’s left me a bit uncomfortable and I’m not sure if I’m overreacting.

She’s a landlord and was saying that with the changes to renter rules and the abolition of Section 21, she’s planning to sell up and “claim benefits as it’s the only way forward.” It just didn’t sit right with me - the tone of it, more than anything and it’s made me question our values a bit.

I’m now wondering whether I’m being unreasonable to consider distancing myself over this or whether it’s fair to feel put off by it.

AIBU?

Only in the same way civil servants, public workers and benefit recipients do - in that ‘taxpayer’s money’ is sent to the source rather than indirectly. But they provide a service which is being used so why wouldn’t they be paid?

Really? I thought there was a cap of 16k and if you had more then you couldn't claim?

So many people taking her literally. Of course she is being facetious.

Nope. You absolutely can own a second property and claim benefits so long as that property isn’t rented out to take you above the income threshold. I’ve seen real life examples of this. It’s a piss take, frankly.

She's probably frustrated at the incoming changes to the rental market. Are you seriously ready to distance yourself based on this remark, without even bothering to discuss it with her first and without realising that it probably wasn't meant literally (odd that strangers on the internet who don't know her and weren't there, picked this up)? If so, then it doesn't sound like much of a friendship to begin with.

No but I think it’s reasonable to reflect on things that don’t sit right rather than just brush them off.

I haven’t said I’m cutting her off over one comment, I’m just thinking about why it didn’t sit right with me. I take the point about frustration but it didn’t come across as purely that to me, which is why I’m pausing on it.

I think there is rather a lot of working people about at the moment who don’t claim benefits who, with all the media about it at the moment, are rather cross that there’s not a huge amount of financial differences depending on your circumstances, between those that work and those that don’t.

Perhaps I am too suspicious, but this thread feels like it will be a magnet for the benefit bashers.

I think it's more reasonable to actually speak to friends instead of just knee-jerking into distancing yourself.

Then again Mumsnet friends seem to be a different breed.

One where none of them seem to talk to each other 🤷‍♂️

Have you thought of this not very novel concept of discussing your feelings, with this friend?

I imagine she’s being a bit facetious. Are you on benefits? I could see how, if you are, that could be an unsettling viewpoint for you to find your friend has.

Yes, I haven’t ruled that out. I’m just sense-checking my reaction first.

I can see why you’d think that but it’s not really about my own situation, it was more the tone and what it seemed to reflect.

Total dick move to stop being friends with someone or distance yourself from them over that.

Just don’t talk to your friends about religion or politics.

It can’t be much of a friendship if you would ditch her based on one comment, seemingly made in understandable frustration.

I'm sure she’ll cope with the loss.

I couldn’t be friends with somebody this stupid so would distance myself from her.

Also landlords whining about how hard it is to have a second property are tiring.

I don’t blame a LL from giving up and selling, with the new rules, but if she’s got the proceeds of a house sale behind her, she won’t be eligible for any means tested benefits.

It depends on how heavily mortgaged she is. If she foolishly bought her BTL properties with a massive mortgage which hasn’t been paid down, she may well not have much money even after sale.

This!

YANBU to stop being friends with her, she sounds grim. But id encourage her to do it. See how far she gets with a claim…

It works both ways though.

The average benefits cost of a benefits-receiving adult is £13,450 p.a. (or about £14,600 p.a if valuing the full implicit subsidy on housing).

To generate that in perpetuity needs about £490k of assets using standard actuarial assumptions (3% real return). Also equiv to a typical post-tax rental yield on a property.

£490k is a bit under two average-value properties.

So the person on benefits and the person with two BTLs are in a similar economic position.

(Thought about differently: society has arranged to give them the benefit of the income from two BTLs. That’s a fortunate position compared to almost anyone in history and to most people in the world today).

I agree with the above that she won’t get benefits anyway, but it doesn’t really matter. She might have been joking anyway. I don’t think you need completely align with someone to be there friend but there needs to be room for healthy discussion and debate between friends

If her tenants are on benefits then does she feel guilty that she is the final destination of those benefits? Does she heck as like.

It’s not really comparable. One is a safety net payment with no capital accumulation; the other is a leveraged investment strategy that ends in full ownership of appreciating assets. Treating them as equivalent because of a notional yield calculation is misleading.