AIBU to formally tell HR I think new employee is too slow and potentially a liar?

[simbale]

I work closely with a new employee. They joined from another company and it was known that they didn’t really have the right experience for the job, but hoping they can learn fast.

This employee is a nice person, but they are just so slow. We have tight deadlines and she never wants to tell me an exact time she will finish something if I ask “when will X be done?”. She just says “hopefully by tomorrow” rather than “by 11am tomorrow”.

Recently I had to work really late to finish a work product because my boss was chasing me for it, but the new employee had sat on it because she didn’t know how to do it and was “busy”.

I recently found out that she has been telling another manager of my level that she couldn’t take on more work for him because she is super busy with my work. She told me the exact same thing the same day, that she couldn’t take on more work for me because she was super busy with his work.

I don’t know it, but it sounds like she is playing one off against the other to avoid work. AIBU to put this in formal feedback with HR?

I obviously don’t know for sure, and she seems very eager to learn when I have time to train her.

You sound very full of yourself & very down on her. Re read your posts & have a think about why she may no longer sound as enthusiastic as when she started.

4 hours 1:1 is nothing.

You come across as a petty and spiteful bully. There are ways of treating new team members and your way is just nasty. My heart goes out to her, she must dread Monday mornings. Your approach is never going to help her blossom.

Four hours induction training is ludicrous.

The last organisation I worked for had a full day's general induction, then at least a week shadowing existing staff who did similar or comparable roles. There would be ongoing shadowing for things that didn't come up very often, the team manager would sometimes put out a call for anyone doing an X/Y/Z to let the new starter know so that they could shadow.

Hi OP, this might help for context as I was in a similar position to the employee you are talking about.

The new role was incredibly different to any previous role I had had, and had lots of processes to become familiar with. I didn't have a hands on manager, and was in effect equal to the person in role thst had been doing it for many years. They were also not responsible for my training. I was instructed to learn by shadowing this colleague, and to make my own notes. Of course, this other colleague soon got tired of my questions as they were busy. My notes were based on what I understood, but of course there was lots mussing through ignorance and unfamiliarity. The other colleague started to become really frustrated with me, sending my work above her head to all managers as an example that I wasn't coping. I wish they had failed my probation but they didn't, they kept me on but continued to tell me I was failing. In the end I requested to be put on a PIP so at least then they would have to give me clear expectations and standards to meet, but they refused to do that too. Instead I worked there for 5 years, had to gradually rebuild all the relationships with senior leaders who had been influenced by my colleagues comments, and deal with this colleague who would only be professional with me when someone new started for them to be frustrated by.

I am sure thus does not exactly mirror yiur experience OP, but my takeaway for your situation is you need to either fail her probation or give her explicit processes, standards and objectives that are set out as SMART targets so that you can objectively record her progress. But also, this issue may well come up with any new colleagues, and so it sounds like the onboarding and training needs to be improved for the future, and any new starters need to have one colleague identified as their trainer who can give support and monitor their learning.

You sound like you’re bullying her tbh.

Jesus Christ. Read this back to yourself OP. This is you putting your side in as positive a manner as possible, and it's still baking you look bad. The problem isn't with the new employee.

Your workplace sounds like me and ,horrible though it is, you sound like how I was just before I burnt out. When you are in such a toxic work environment for so long it starts to feel normal ...it isn't!

My workplace is also very deadline driven. We lost potentially good members of staff because I wasn't allowed to develop them and after a while I started on the road to a similar ruthlessness...in actions, not thought but my reports only saw the actions.

I am still there but have changed role so that I'm not longer line managing. It won't change the workplace but at least I can live with my own behaviour.

Even given all the above, your behaviour is shocking. Less than an hour to respond to an email? How can she concentrate on the work she is focusing on if she's always on edge checking her inbox? How can she know how long work will take if she hasn't been trained? Plus if she has a reasonable adjustment and it's only just been asked, she clearly is so overwhelmed that she's been forced to disclose a disability that she previously didn't think would impact her work.

It sounds like she needs a structured training plan with regular check ins and specific goals. Her manager needs to be ultra clear on deadlines and the need for her to say as soon as she is aware she might not meet a deadline. She needs a clear route and contact if she doesn't understand something and needs help - at this early stage it should be a 'no such thing as a silly question' approach.

When all this is in place, if she is still being evasive or dishonest, that is the time for addressing it but it needs to be via her line manager - barring gross misconduct it would be usually a case of a PIP route to exit, or being encouraged to resign.

I find it odd you don’t have line managers? So no one is overly responsible for her?

I’ve been in her position before - absolutely new to a role I had no experience in, for a team that promised patience and full training. In reality I got a bit of training to start with then was just sort of expected to do it once I’d been there a few weeks - however the job changes constantly through the year and what I was trained for initially didn’t apply after two months!! Communication was awful, pressure was horrific and I left after less than a year.
have a really good look. You say you’ve done 4 hours on something - but imagine you were coming to something absolutely new. Would that really be sufficient!?

To be honest, I have to say it’s you who sounds stressed and disorganised. I’d suggest if you’re relying on her to deliver work you give her stringent deadlines rather than waiting for her to deliver the work to you. Also, expecting someone to Reply to your emails within an hour is insane - I work in a very demanding role and would use Slack/teams to send important messages that need a quick respond. You need to also state could you let me know in the next hour as I need to xyz

I read all your post OP and I agree with others you sound like you are describing the thought processes of a workplace bully...respond to your emails within the hour? Worked at court, probation, NHS at Director / Board level never heard such a thing between professionals. If it's urgent you have a conversation...are you this individuals line manager..because if not you really are over reaching / bullying.
What vacancy does she fill? How did work get done before?

@ThatAgileLimeCatthis is exactly it! I feel like OP sounds stressed and burnt our and in fight or flight

I don’t believe that a company big enough to have an HR person or department doesn’t have line managers.

@simbale also it’s sad she’s gone from enthusiastic to withdrawn. You sound really toxic in your approach and she’s probably now anxious to make a mistake and do things right. Horrible way to treat anyone. The saying - there is never a bad job just a bad manager! Why did you hire her if she didn’t have the skills you needed for her to hit the ground running!

I’m sure there’s more to this than you’ve been able to post, and I can understand how it might be frustrating that because this colleague is not doing what they should be that extra work is falling to you. But it seems me that she is quite simply struggling and is getting limited support. She was given the job even though she had no experience in precisely what she’d be required to do. 4 hours one to one is nothing. There is reference to telling her she needs to be faster but no kind conversation of how are you getting on? What I can do to help you? Maybe you feel that’s not your role, but it needs to be someone’s. You mentioned she’s getting reasonable adjustments but seem pretty wedded to your view that that is a just another way for her to dodge meeting expectations rather than this is someone who needs support. Adjusting your view and offering kindness might actually lead to the result you want which is her being able to do her job- which is what she likely wants too.

Have you tried putting yourself in her shoes? It sounds you are piling on the pressure. Given she has mentioned reasonable adjustments you could end up in hot water depending on what they are and how you are behaving.

Honestly I'd not want to work with you at all.

You've told her repeatedly she needs to be faster. Have you told her how? Have you shown her ways to complete these tasks more quickly and accurately?
She's told you she needs reasonable adjustments and more time so have you taken this into account in your expectations of what she should be achieving?
There's no point in complaining unless someone (you?) is going to put in place and action a clear plan to support her improvement.

I hope it is a reverse then we can all tell her to get the fuck out of that toxic environment.

This exactly.

The poor woman - you say she has reasonable adjustments which you feel are an excuse not to work fast enough.

You’re not her LM yet you demand she respond to you within an hour

Youve ground this poor woman down - if I heard this from a new employee I’d be pulling you in to discuss it. It’s almost bullying

It sounds like the training has been poor and doesn't match the expectations. Three months in and only four hours of in-person training is inadequate. You sound harsh and demanding in that context.

Has she had any probationary meetings to review progress and if so, who with? She needs someone who is supportive and who understands her role to analyse what she has been lacking in training. The support sounds non existent.

I've worked in places where you're expected to know what to do by osmosis. It's shit. I end up documenting things so those who come behind me won't have such a challenge.

With my current team, there's a list of regular tasks we do and more generalised areas of job-knowledge, so everyone has an idea of what's expected and knows the areas they're strong or weak in. As a manager, it means I know where we need knowledge transfer and training, and that if X is sick or on leave, we won't be stuffed if a problem comes in. People have different strengths and weaknesses, but there are some things we all need to cover.

It sounds like there's nothing so structured with you, and so expectations aren't clear. She needs to be faster - but is she not fast enough because it's not clear what is required, or because deadlines aren't clear, or something else?

Answering emails within an hour - most places I've been, you use whatever form of instant messenger you have if you need a responsethat quickly. Email is not real time communication.

I'd be worried about her becoming withdrawn. I hope for her sake, she's looking for another job where she will be more supported in learning what she needs to do. She was employed with you all knowing she hasn't got the background to pick up the job and run with it on day one. Your failure to offer her the structure and support to learn the role is not her fault. Yes, you're all busy, but knowing the background, time should have been set aside to train her - an hour a day, if not more st the start, not 90 minutes a month.

If it was known she wasn’t up to code and needed some training and she isn’t fast or able to do some work then has she actually been offered enough/ correct training?

This!

Sounds like she needs more training. I’ve been in teams before where line managers have convinced themselves that they’ve given me enough training but they haven’t. On one team, I told my line manager he hadn’t told me about a super important issue and that’s why I’d done it wrong and he could provide no evidence we’d ever discussed it. There was no reason whatsoever for me to wilfully do it wrong either 🤷‍♀️

Have a really good discussion with her about her job role, what it entails and where her knowledge gaps are. Then you can identify training needs and goals/timelines to achieve them.