To have found certain parts of Paris edgy

[Sheeled]

I stayed in Belleville, which was ok. Walked ina respectable area today, there was a guy possibly in his 30s, clearly.not right mentally verbally harassing and jostling people asking for money. Didn't see much police presence anywhere.

There were big groups of men, many of whom were shouting at each other and again many looked quite unwell, around the main train stations.

Large areas around the stations smelled I mean really smelled of urine.

A lot of people seemed really unhappy and afraid.

Don't know if this has always been the case or are we simply talking about some areas. I dont think Ill be visiting again in a hurry.

Wow. As PP says, Whitechapel has been multicultural since at least the 19th Century. How far back do you want to go for your England? Maybe when the Romans were here....? Or the French or the Scandinavians?

Paris is known for being very sketchy, I wouldn’t personally go.

Paris has always stunk of piss

You’re funny.

Statistically it is more dangerous than 145 other European cities.
7 French cities feature in the top 12 cities for crime rates per capita in Europe
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/region_rankings_current.jsp?region=150

I definitely would recommend both of those areas. They're lively, varied and interesting.
Apart from the museums, South Kensington and Belgravia are dull as fuck IMO. Soulless, most people on the streets slightly baffled tourists, few and far between cafes and restaurants that are either rubbish or rip-offs or both.

Not odd. Dog whistle. Seems to be working too. Hackney, Peckham, Whitechapel bad, Kensington and Belgravia good. Funny nobody mentions Westminster which has the highest crime rate in the country. Birmingham is terrible, “tale of two halves” (coincidentally also the split on white/non white). No mention of the majority white Liverpool or Newcastle with their Hugh crime rates.

Then of course the explicit suggestion that researching which areas are non-immigrant is a good idea before you travel. 🤦🏻‍♀️ (I wonder if we should so the same when going to the Spanish costas?

I live in a small town in Scotland, with a very low crime rate. I feel unsafe walking my dog in the dark bits at night.

I love Paris, but would agree that its sketchy parts out-sketchy the sketchiest parts of London. Actually, even a couple of the more touristy areas do as well. We had an odd experience outside the Sacre Coeur, when a dodgy character grabbed my husband's wrist (the one with his watch on it) and aggressively tried to 'sell' him a bracelet. It was very obvious that he'd have taken the watch if dh had been naive about the tactics of pick-pockets and hadn't stood up to him so robustly. I mean the guy literally blocked our path and grabbed hold of his wrist! The nearest Metro to the Eiffel Tower felt quite rough too.

I said on a recent London thread that I've never felt unsafe as a lone woman travelling home late evening. I felt unsafe a couple of times in Paris, and in Newcastle when I visited last year - twice in the same evening.

Tower Hamlets has corruption problems and the crime rate is 'high' compared to the rest of the country according to the web

Yep same - about 10 years ago I was living in London but spending a lot of time in Paris. Paris felt sketchier than London, and I was thinking exactly the same word as you reading the thread! And I was living in Peckham lol. Even central Paris could feel a bit sinister after dark. I very rarely felt unsafe in London.

I mean...yes and no. Yes, Paris does have its edgy side, no it doesn't stop it being a fantastic many faceted city.

I arrived at Gare du Nord at 9.00pm a couple of weeks ago and walked to my hostel just north of La Chapelle metro. Yes, it's a dodgy area, yes lots of young poor brown men around, yes a couple of them commented on my presence 🙄 But I also had a brilliant masala dosa at a Sri Lankan cafe on the way, had a pint and watched all the cool young things at the bar next door, and went back to the hostel to discover everyone salsa dancing to a live Cuban band in the foyer.

All I can say is that it felt even dodgier as a 16 year old in the 90s! I did used to get followed and harassed by men a lot. And then I became a tour guide, shepherding teenagers through the city, and yes sometimes the group would pick up a nasty abusive nutter, trailing us and shouting at us 😬

I don't know where I'm going with this...yes I love the place, yes there is a bit of an edge, but not as bad as it was. It does seem to me that, although the French state looks after those it considers to be legitimate citizens pretty well, recently arrived immigrants without connections and street homeless people with mental health/ substance abuse issues don't get much support. I've seen people in a pretty bad way on the streets, visibly unwell in a way that would have them picked up and taken into hospital in the UK, with nary even a street outreach team in sight.

Mad how we all have different experiences! Me and DP visited Paris for my birthday last Sept we never felt unsafe, never smelled urine, visited many different places, didnt stay somewhere really upmarket either we travelled in.
On the other hand I hate London with a passion I always feel really vulnerable there

Absolutely agree. I wouldn’t be hanging around Peckham, Mile End, Brixton or any other grim parts.

I think those who haven't lived in a large European city tend to romanticise places like Paris and Rome. I blame shows like Emily in Paris personally!

Seriously though, common sense. Staying in the 19 arrondissement won't be for anyone imagining Paris is dinner overlooking the twinkling lights of The Eiffel or strolling down Avenue Montaigne in a dreamy daze.

I personally love Paris and have spent a lot of time there for work and pleasure, but am realistic and always exercise caution, as I do pretty much everywhere else I go - including the city in Europe I live in.

The urine smell: yes, it's gross, and I find it more pervasive in Paris than a lot of other equivalent cities. I truly don't know why, as Paris does this automatic gutter washing thing on its pavements most days, which you'd think would help.

In terms of dodgy men etc - they can be intimidating but most people will never actually experience any issues with them.

One thing I'll say is that living in Paris teaches you to be a bitch. You cannot give an inch of friendliness to random people out in public, you assume the worst and treat people coldly because otherwise you're opening your arms to scammers and men who will take that inch of cordiality and immediately try to turn it into a mile. To some extent this applies in other cities too, but even more so in Paris, in my experience.

This. DH is French, doesn't love Paris.

Sketchy as fuck in places.

We didn’t find that and I have been several times.

When I’ve visited Paris I mostly stay central so don’t know the dodgy parts. My aunt lives there though, not sure of arrondissement but we are planning to meet up soon so I’ll find out. She has a studio apartment.

When I used to travel to parents holiday home in SW, we would go to Bordeaux as you had to get the train to the house and we flew to Bordeaux airport. Several dodgy characters asking for money hung around the station and we heard of pickpockets being around too. They’d try to help you use the Metro ticket machine. Once me and my mum went to get groceries nearby and it felt safe but a bit edgy. Luckily I was rarely there by myself and if so was on high alert.

Every big and small town/city has its bad/unsafe and good/safe parts though.

Dull? Dull?! I absolutely love walking through South Kensington and Belgravia areas when the sun is out. Brightens my day and fills me with so much joy.

I've been to the cafes. I actually enjoyed them. I had a lovely hot chocolate whilst enjoying the view and the blossoms. Went to some nice pubs after and had a scrumptious lunch.

Then I went to Hyde park.

@crackofdoom you went to Paris for a curry and a pint? What was the point? 😹

Paris is way sketchier than London.

The metro is also really trashy and totally disability unfriendly.

You get off the eurostar and step out at St Pancras vs Gare du Nord. No contest there, I know where I feel safer hanging around outside with a cigarette. I travel between the two every month.

Some great opinions here on normal areas of London where many people live and work. Keep up the prejudice and racism people.

I don’t think they are necessarily the places for tourists to prioritise but Peckham and Brixton are both good places to live in London. Parts of Peckham are pretty fancy, especially leading up to Camberwell. London ‘bustles’ a lot more than Paris which makes it feel safer to me.

I mean visit London would beg to differ

https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/london-areas/peckham/things-to-do-in-peckham

https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/london-areas/brixton