To ask about ICE agents?

[Carlie97]

I'm watching a documentary on ICE agents. There are some black agents. Why would they do this job in what is an obviously outrageous, racist enforcement agency where innocent people of colour are targeted and sometimes killed? I'm genuinely curious.

Everyone needs a job I suppose.

My (black) dh came to the UK as an immigrant and he also has citizenship of a third country. His parents are immigrants too. They emigrated to New York from the Caribbean in the 80s.

My dh had to jump through many hoops to get citizenship here. It’s an expensive and lengthy process. I don’t think he’s a particular supporter of illegal immigrants just because he’s black and he’s also an immigrant.

I feel so intrigued about the agents. The behaviour of some is horrific (I’m sure there’s some ‘nice’ ones…) and I can’t balance it in my head how some are 1 minute ripping people from their homes/families and the next going home and being wonderful parents.

How do their partners/families feel, they can’t be happy when they see it on the news. How do you stay with someone who can destroy people’s lives.

Because it is your political opinion that ICE are "an outrageous, racist enforcement agency where people of colour are targeted and killed". There are people out there with a different political opinion that view ICE as a legitimate enforcement agency that identifies, detains, and removes undocumented immigrants, particularly focusing on those who have violated criminal laws, are considered national security threats, or have been ordered to leave the country. And where legal status and not skin colour is what is relevant.

Unfortunately we are now in an age of polarised politics where one side is so convinced that they are right that they are completely unable to view a topic from any other perspective than their own. And to merely point out that a different opinion even exists usually invites a barrage of intolerance and abuse.

I mean, ICE are shooting people dead in the street. So…

Because people don’t think Organisations are coming for them, until they do.

There's a uk black YouTuber, I can't remember his name. He was born in a refugee camp and his parents legally applied for assilum in the UK. It took years.

He is annoyed that people are entering the country illegally, often working in the black economy because they don't have papers or jumping the cue without a valid reason to be here

I guess the ice agents feel the same

They wait outside of hospitals and courtrooms to tear families apart, they kill people and they do target people of colour, they're not chasing down white people to arrest them. These are facts not political opinion.

Have you watched the Zone of Interest? It's an extreme example, but it shows how those who are monsters can be just like you or I in terms of family.

This, pretty much,

The messengers aren’t the main problem though. That would be the white decision makers.

I can’t speak for ICE specifically but I’m sure they’re not all racist thugs. Aside from the gammons, the people I know that are most annoyed by illegal immigrants are the immigrants who have paid thousands and jumped through hoops to make sure they are here legally and correctly. They believe if they can do it, the others should too. Perhaps it’s on that line. Perhaps they feel that they will do the job with more of a genuine purpose and keep immigrants safer than their racist counterparts.

@WhatWouldDianeLockhartDo I agree with many legal immigrants being really annoyed. My older brothers both live in America and are now citizens. They went through legal routes and are the embodiment of the alleged American dream. There are quite a few black American commentators who support ICE. They are very anti illegal immigration.

My family have came to the UK as legal immigrants. I find the people most outspoken and anti ICE are very often white liberals and assume it must be some sort of white guilt.

There are black Immigration Officers in the UK as well you know? ICE work at airports, they deport foreign criminals, they detain and remove those who have no business being in the US.

Of course absolutely no one supports killing people or hunting down US citizens but every country has a right to secure its borders and kick out those who are illegally present.

Because people assume that if you're an immigrant or black, brown etc you must be pro illegal immigration. That doesn't make sense.

P.s. ICE is awful in how they treat people.

It's a job.
It is well paid.
It probably has great benefits eg health insurance.
You don't have to be white to be racist.

It very much could be. I think we want to be seen as doing the right thing. Immigration is OK and with other means closed, it’s clear why this route is being taken. I think a lot of people feel the need to fight the demonisation and prove “we’re one of the good ones” and to remind everyone that not all white people are horrid. Also, not all white people have travelled the same path. The Irish were the immigrants in the UK and treated like dirt - a lot of us just want to show we understand people are people and not solely an immigrant because our parents and grandparents weren’t shown the same grace.

Why the specific interest in American immigration officials unless you are American? Immigration enforcement practices in most countries are not particularly pleasant and most people employed as immigration officials are not white because the vast majority of people in the world are not white?

I’m guessing a lot of black Americans and Hispanic Americans are quite a few generations into living on that continent. Many are unlikely to be first, second or even third generation immigrants.

ICE are not new. They are a long established US federal organisation with a legitimate role in removing people. The current leadership and the current administration have set incentives that have resulted in poor recruitment and bizarre targets. These have led to people being recruited who shouldn’t be appointed to a law enforcement role and the arrest and detention of easy targets. These are people who are easy to find because they are documented, settled and have families. They are not really doing what the Republicans pledged to do. Which was a political mandate to limit illegal immigration and to remove people who shouldn’t be in the country.

We have the same issue here. The government is unable to remove people or return them under our current legal system. We are stuck between a debate that is either open borders or turn back the boats/repatriation because people don’t do middle ground or complexity anymore.

Are you being purposefully blasé or have you been living under a rock? The specific interest is clearly due to them being in the news currently due to their barbaric practices and lack of human rights or general care. A person that joins ICE right now probably has very different reasons and intentions to someone who has been doing the job for years.

I'm not being blasé. Because I am not living under a rock, I do realise that there is a big wide world out there beyond what the UK news chooses to report on. I have been an immigrant myself and I have lived in countries which have far more brutal immigration policies than the USA. My daughter is currently a legal immigrant in the USA. There are far worse countries to focus on, if you are concerned about the plight of immigrants.

There are far worse countries to focus on, if you are concerned about the plight of immigrants.

I love the smell of whataboutery in the morning.

Oh come on! Lets be realistic, the media attention is because white people got killed when protesting, not because some non-white people are having a bad time.

Yes that’s why the initial attention came but since then we’ve seen many non-white people having a bad time as you put it. People are being arrested with force and then detained without medication, beds and food. They are begging for medical help and not getting it. They’re dying in the detention centres. There was one video going around where someone was arrested at a petrol station and dragged off fully limp.