AIBU to expect my workload to fit within contracted hours?

[worklifebalance26]

NC for this - I'm not sure if I am being U or not. I earn 55K in the public sector (I have excellent qualifications and this is what you'd expect from a mid-level professional in my area). I'm increasingly finding it very stressful to fit everything into my working hours (9-5 Mon-Friday). I was tempted earlier to do some work to ease the burden off me tomorrow, but one part of me feels that's a slippery slope to burnout after I previously felt like that whilst studying and working. Since then I feel quite protective of my own time. On the other hand, I earn a good salary and know lots of people paid less than me have to work over their hours.

AIBU to think the work should fit into my standard hours?

To me you’re probably at the cross over point where a bit of flexibility starts to become expected as part of the role.

I’d still expect the work over the year to roughly fit in ‘working efficiently’ for the whole of your working hours’. But that some busier patches or patches where the days have been less efficient will need a bit of balancing out.

Honestly whilst I know it shouldn't be the case, I'd say that it's expected at that salary. Whilst I know in private people will say you shouldn't be working over unless you're on six figures, in public sector management roles are often 40kish and senior management 55k/60k ish and anywhere within those I think the workload is creeping up. That said, it should be enough to fit in by a few earlier starts or later finishes rather than taking up the weekend (unless that's what you prefer to do)

Im in a very similar boat, I do work a bit extra but if i can't get things done I've basically agreed to flag and my manager can reprioritize, if needed. What I won't do is work myself in to the ground. What happens if you say no (or, not yet)

My boss is great actually but I've started to internalise it and think I'm not efficient enough. I don't actually think that is the case, but I'm almost worried about admitting its a bit much and feel I should be able to manage. I already often work 30 mins or so extra in the mornings so won't squabble about that, but I really would prefer it doesn't creep into my weekends.

I know what you mean. I'm at senior management level (but not a senior manager, I'm in a niche clinical profession in the NHS which falls into that pay band) and I feel like it is almost expected. The work is emotionally and logistically challenging though so keen to not burn myself out so early in my career! I'm only in my early-mid 30s.

I think this is symptomatic of a struggling economy and it being an employer’s market. working outside of contracted hours = ‘caring’ and ‘going beyond’ but also ‘you get to keep your job’

Teaching I think is the worst. Teachers are in school 7.30 to 5.30 (longer for parents’ eves or if required to wait with a child for social services) and the norm is to spend 1 day every weekend lesson planning/marking. Hours are even longer for headteachers. Most half terms they also need to mark, prep, make resources. Teachers end up putting their lives on hold, waiting for August.

I'm trying to think of any job I ever had that fitted in contracted hours. Either we booked and were paid overtime, took TOIL or just worked the hours needed for the higher up roles.

That's not how life and work works.

Depends if it's a constant "too much", or if you just have a bad week, and next week yiu might be able to leave half an hour early on Friday, because its settled down.

The second id expect at your level. The first may need some pushback.

I would disagree it should just be expected, no questions asked.

That's a good point, I feel like it's balanced itself (ish) up until now but its starting to creep up. I'll keep an eye on it.

This is when you down tools at the end of your day and carry on the next day. It’s not your fault if they’re not employing enough people 🤷‍♀️ Maybe a chat with your line manager is in order to find out the parts of your work you should prioritise and let them
know than other parts need to either be delegated or they won’t be done.

Don’t ever do more than your hours.

At your level, I wouldn’t expect the work to fit into a 9-5 day. Workloads will fluctuate and it’s a swings and roundabout situation.

I’m on a similar (FTE) salary as manager of two cohesive teams, and I do a little bit outside of hours (I only work 3 weekdays so I’ll check in on emails on my days off, or on the rare occasion pop into the office for an extra hour or two when I have childcare) but then it’s balanced out on the occasion I need to go to an appointment in work hours or dip out early if DS is poorly. I’m not a slave to it though. We have busier and quieter times of year, and right now I’m on annual leave so won’t check my emails again until the day I arrive back in the office.

It’s ludicrous to expect people to work unpaid overtime on that salary.

Am going to go against the grain here but assuming you are not London based and are on AfC that would make you a band 7 and to be honest at that grade, in a clinical role it is normal. As a PP said you are that crossover stage from technical speciality to management. Your manager should help you prioritise and I personally would do longer days than eat into a weekend, but it is part of the culture. In a non clinical role at a similar equivalent level of responsibility, with a private sector pension (therefore less than AfC / NHS contracts) there would be similar expectation too.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I have worked in all sorts of health care roles over the years including AfC roles, public and private sector; in the NHS, in HEIs, in industry and government so I do have a reasonable insight into how it works.

Whether it is right or not, is a different question.

However what I would say, is that if this is a step up in role for you or circumstances have changed in the organisation you work for (because let's face it there is a huge amount of pressure on many clinical roles at the moment), I would look carefully at whether or not you are trying to be too conscientious. I remember when I first stepped up into my first real management role and my boss had to take me to one side and point out that at this stage in my career I was never going "to get to the point where I felt all my work was done" and I needed to make me peace with that and learn when to switch off.

Good luck, it sounds like you are doing well and sorry if what I have said comes across as harsh, am just trying to be realistic.

I’m actually an 8a and I have really quickly stepped up in the last few years so I found that post really insightful. It’s so hard as I want to do the best for my clients but I also think I need to learn to let some things go (that aren’t as important). Thank you so much for your honest and food for thought!

Well this is even more of a huge congrats then 🙂 you are acing it at this stage of your career.

Talk to your line manager about prioritisation and expectations, and if you can get a mentor or on some leadership training - do. The one thing the NHS is great at is supporting managers as they move up the food chain, and even just building up a peer support group to help you navigate this transition will be beneficial.

I agree with @Thingamebobwotsit Jobs in the public sector are often a greater workload than they should be, and it isn't a simple 'well your boss should employ more staff' because unlike the private sector, more work coming in doesn't mean more money for the organisation! But whilst there is a likelihood of regularly working over, it usually comes with balance - eg flexibility about time off when you need it, eg re caring responsibilities or emergencies, and taking TOIL if there's a quieter spell. But it is also important to know when to stop. Im in social care and my job would be equivalent to band 7, similar to you I'm management level but niche role not managing anyone. Whilst I do work over quite regularly, it's just enough to do what I need to do so my life doesn't get too difficult (eg recording things I know are important, preparing for meetings I'm chairing) It isn't working over to complete everything that could be on my to do list because I could do an extra twenty hours a week and it still wouldn't be enough. In my experience in public sector, prioritising means deciding what's urgent, what's needed today, what can be pushed back, what I can tolerate being late, what is someone else's urgent but their lack of organisation doesn't make it my emergency... You learn what's 'tolerable' rather than what's comfortable!
And as the PP mentioned, you're acing it to be 8a at this age.

Look, I know teachers have it rough but almost everyone is working those hours in the public sector these days. I regularly do 14 hours a day and have to work at weekends to keep up. Teachers aren't special in that regard. Is it right? No. Is it the public sector and slashes in funding? Yes.

OP, I think some flexibility is expected as you get higher in the public sector and there is a balance (Flexi, TOIL etc) but you definitely need to flag if it gets too much or you'll burn out.

I totally disagree with working over contracted hours unless exceptional circumstances. It takes a job from another person ie the company needs more workers. In today's world it's always more for less, but the job situation is not good atm, so I get it's difficult, however your health and wellbeing it so important. Hope you sort something out.@

I see a creator pop up on TikTok often called “Emily the Recruiter” who imparts wisdom like “hey bestie, your work would replace you in 48 hours if you died tonight, so why are you answering Teams messages at midnight…?” and similar. It’s obviously very hammed up and exaggerated, but honestly, she makes useful points that have given me food for thought!

I’m a lecturer and work four days a week (.8 contract) but it’s often seven days as we have staff off long term sick and no budgets to pay for cover. Today I actually spoke to my manager and said I can’t keep going like this, and while I know there isn’t any way to reduce the work, how can we manage it better. He’s agreed to put some of my classes on study leave so I can clear my desk of marking (some of which “belongs” to an off sick person). I’m lucky that he is super-supportive - and I think also scared of more people going off sick! - but even if he hadn’t been I figured I had nothing to lose by asking to have a conversation about workload, and it at least created a record.

if the hours aren’t sufficient to do the job, there needs to be more resource. If you work extra, and don’t claim overtime, it hides the issue.
I won’t work over my contracted hours as I deserve to be paid for my time.
Draw your boundary now or they’ll absolutely take the piss.

@Malasana there's usually something in contracts at this level that includes working anti social hours as the job demands, ie working over. The situation isn't hidden in the public sector - staff are typically vocal about pressures and risk of burn out - but the staffing budget is the staffing budget, and until a government get voted in that are willing to properly invest in public services it's par for the course. It's usually offset somewhat by better protections for time off sick, emergency leave, job security etc.

I work in the public sector so I’m aware of budget restrictions.
However my contracted hours are exactly that and if my role requires more hours, I don’t do them for no pay.
I have a lot of knowledge and experience in my area that I’ve built up over the years and I deserve to be paid for all of my time.
If they need more hours from me then I need to be paid overtime or have TOIL in return, as do my colleagues.
Just because it’s the public sector, I won’t work for free. I have a fairly senior role as well.

I think this is symptomatic of a struggling economy and it being an employer’s market. working outside of contracted hours = ‘caring’ and ‘going beyond’ but also ‘you get to keep your job’

Not unusual in private sector. In 25 years, I've never worked in a job - be it £25k out of uni or £70k - where you just clock off because it's 5pm! Places have had varying levels of flex, some are happy for you to take a long lunch break or leave a little bit early as trade off, you're expected to get the job done. That's not even managerial level!