Fuel protests in the UK - good thing or not

[Janespade]

there are successful fuel protests in Ireland and other countries are also having fuel protests in Europe.
They will come to the UK soon - 2001 style so you won’t be able to buy any fuel.
Are these protests the best way of tacking the vast amount of tax paid on fuel?
Or do you see them as blockades as the Irish authorities have called them.
Is it ok for ordinary people to lose jobs as they can’t get to work? What about people going for cancer treatment who have to drive in daily?
In 2001 school buses stopped running in some places so we could see schools shut, teachers stuck at home and health care staff without fuel to get to work. It’s not as if the majority can rely on public transport.
Maybe exams won’t run this year and we’ll all have to WFH and that could be a positive unless you have a trade?
is the disruption to a few lives worth it as everyone will benefit it fuel tax comes down?

Boycotting American items would be a better start because it's the result of their vote that has caused all the shit.

Cutting duty on agricultural oil (red oil) is different to cutting it on publicly sold petrol and diesel. Which one would you cut? Or would you cut both? How much would that cost the tax payer in lost revenue?

I mean considering the bumper tax they are getting due to the increased prices it’s not exactly fair to say they couldn’t shave a couple of pence off and be back in the same position as prior.

They are making good on the public being squeezed.

I have no idea how much red diesel has increased by since the start of the war, or how much vat and fuel duty is applied to it, but I would agree that reducing the duty and vat to a level commensurate with what the actual government portion was earlier in the year would be sensible. I live in an area that has a huge amount of farming, both arable and livestock, but so many farmers are retiring, or worse, filling their fields with solar farms. My county has the largest acreage of solar in England. I’d keep petrol and diesel duty where it is for now, but if it continues to increase then yes, cut the VAT take to 5%. Higher fuel prices does mean that people ration themselves, so if petrol availability is slightly reduced due to the ongoing war, there’s enough fuel available. There wouldn’t be a loss of revenue as, for example, 55% (duty and vat) of a £1.80 litre is higher than 55% of £1.35. The government will still be getting what they were before all of this started.

Stating that the fuel protests in Ireland are successful is incorrect and that this will come to the UK is quite frankly scaremongering - would suggest looking further into this before trying to start such a discussion.

@mindutopia are you on heating oil? If so have you looked at the help on offer? I don't know where you are but in Scotland eligibility is related to certain benefits, or financial hardship and a health condition.

God I hope not. I'm rural so public transport is one train a hour then a two mile walk to Sainsbury's or a ten mile round walk from home.

I would definitely be spending less if it was all going to be hauled about in backpack. Increasingly since covid this kind of talk sets off a anarchist feeling within me and I'm a pretty straight boring scientist who scoffs at things like conspiracy theories, etc. So, no idea where this urge to "beat the system" comes from? But I'd see myself and kids living off a sack of rice and never leaving the house going feral and refusing to suck it up on the once a day bus into town. I'd be more "fuck this I opt out of life" eat local rats and drink my own piss.

Ie I'm done with the war mentality of we are in this together keep calm and carry on.

My disabled son gets a taxi to his school. So does his SEN brother. A lack of education pushes him closer daily to supported living, which increasingly seems an attractive option.

Feel better for saying that..I blame peri and my worry-o-metre being burnt out. Bring on no education and rotisserie rats

An interesting comment on the Irish protests was that it wasnt possible to negotiate with them because they had no idea what they wanted.

So who exactly will be leading it, I suggest that it will be traitors who are acting on behalf of either the super rich or other hostile nations.

Changing tax rate % complex and just not a reasonable response to a short term problem. It takes a lot of resource and complexity across finance systems etc- it’s hard enough to do when the rate is changing permanently.

i believe red oil has doubled in price

Instead of blocking roads I wish they would spend some time maintaining all those flags they have put up .. right tatty mess.

I noticed last week that parts of Dublin have been affected by this. Lamp posts where battered tricolours hang limply from only one of the cable ties they used to be attached to. Eejits.

You reckon that the petrol stations would pass on the reduction to consumers? Do they ever?

Even if they did, the lower prices would increase demand and because the supply/demand imbalance problem has not been solved the prices would just go back up and/or you'll have shortages.

Firstly you can't apply percentages to fuel duty because unlike VAT it's charged at a flat rate per litre. So scrub your 55%, the government is only getting around 15p extra per litre from the VAT, it gets exactly the same amount of duty - it may even be losing out if supply/consumption reduces.

As for red diesel:

The fuel duty on red diesel is 10.18p per litre and the VAT is 5%.

Before Trump's war, red diesel was around 66p per litre, so the VAT will have been 3-4p per litre and the duty 10.18p.

Now red diesel is around 120p per litre. Vat on this is about 6p and duty still 10.18p

So your proposal takes a couple of pennies off the end price, because the government isn't profiteering from red diesel.

What all this actually shows is that having high rates of fuel duty actually insulates the public when wholesale costs spike. Farmers have low rates of fuel duty and have seen their costs double, but ordinary consumers have only seen it increase by a third. It might have been higher to start with but at least you had budgeted for that.

The government isn't "cashing in" or "making money", what do you think taxes are for? It doesn't go in anyone's pockets (like company profits do), it's more money for our services.
And MP's second homes, complete with duckhouses.
And their booze.
And their extremely generous pay rises, which the rest of us can only dream of, and which isolate them even further from the realities which their constituents face.
And Boris Johnson's wallpaper.
And his drunken parties in 2020.
And months of months of paying people not to work, because they frightened the pants off the public (another debate, I know).
And the billions wasted on useless PPE.
And the extremely expensive app.
And that utterly wasteful Millennium Dome.
And Liz Truss's ill-deserved prime ministerial pension.
And council tax going up and up and up, yet the roads are more cratered and potholed than ever, and guess who pays for repairs to their cars?

I could go on and on. I wouldn't mind paying taxes if governments would spend them wisely, but government after government seems content to piss them up the wall, so it's no wonder that many people are resentful about paying for more and more of the above.

Life is getting more and more and more expensive, which is not entirely the current government's fault: this war fiasco is the latest in a long, long line of things to hurt people's pockets; but people are still reeling that we have been fucked over again, and again, and again by government after government, and some bankers as well. People might eventually get angry and start fuel protests, not caring that it will hurt everybody else, as well as them.

I know I'm contributing by replying, but we must also remember one thing: if we talk about fuel protests on social media, they are more likely to actually happen.

“I’ve seen a lot of X online’ ‘significant online community’ mate it’s your algorithm showing you loads of posts because you acted interested in the content.

Like the other thread currently in active saying that loads of people think that the Artemis moon mission was a hoax because they are seeing lots of comments online.

Its not everywhere, it’s just everywhere for you.

I wouldn't have said they were a success. They just stopped ordinary people going about their day, they didn't drop the price at all.

This. Even if the customer did benefit in the short term, tax breaks aren’t a solution to a supply side issue. Oil is currently more expensive because there is less of it on the market, and if there continues to be less of it we are all going to have to look at reducing our consumption. Some people want there to be a simple solution which doesn’t require them to change their own behaviour.

I keep seeing people dismiss this as “far right,” but that doesn’t reflect everyone involved or supporting it. I’m fully in support of the protests, and I’m not far right, I’m not racist, and for me this has nothing to do with immigration.

Reducing it to that label just shuts down any real conversation. A lot of ordinary people support what’s happening because they’re worried about livelihoods, rising costs, and the sustainability of essential industries. These are real concerns that deserve to be heard, not brushed off or mischaracterised.

It’s entirely possible to support these protests while also believing in fairness, respect, and equality for everyone. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

I have neither the time, nor the crayons to go through the whole post but:

• The duckhouse expense claim was never approved so the taxpayer never paid out.
• Johnson's wallpaper was paid for by a private donor, was it not?
• Did the taxpayer buy the suitcases full of booze? Receipts please.
• Council tax mostly goes to social care

I remember the last protests. All I saw were the consequences for the most vulnerable - people with illnesses and disabilities who were unable to use public transport, who suddenly had no means to manage essential travel. I saw ambulances blocked from getting to where they needed to go. And I failed to see how anyone with a functioning moral compass could support that.

I feel the same way about the current protests. I don't care who's doing it and where they stand politically. They're scum.

I get why you’d feel that way if that was your experience, but calling everyone involved “scum” just isn’t fair or accurate.

The reality with the current protests is that the vast majority have been peaceful, and there’s been a real effort to make sure emergency services can get through.

The only meaningful and impactful protest would be to stop buying it. Some people won’t be able to do that. But plenty of us could rearrange our lives and avoid driving. Withdraw the literal fuel for the fuel industry (money) is the only impactful action. Blockading and making a scene just inconveniences people who have no power to change anything.

505million package announced. Its had some impact right or wrong in it's nature.

I really hope there aren't any in the UK. It is unpleasant for the majority of people involved. Also far too much rioting/looting etc. here in the past I would be much more concerned about something major kicking off.

Protests may have been infiltrated by far right but it was your average person fed up with the government getting an increased amount of tax from fuel.

The people I know (a lot of people) were protesting for a cap on how much the government was getting rather than % with rising fuel cost, a reduction wouldn't be sneezed at mind. They weren't really asking for the cost to be cut, more that it wouldn't be rising just to line government coffers (bike sheds for example). They protested because high fuel costs are crippling their business for vehicles, heating and needing to raise wages of employees. They absolutely have been supported by local people who kept them well fed and what not. Ireland is the kind of place where this wouldn't have been going on for almost a week if the majority disagreed with it. There wouldn't be much waiting around for the guards or the army to intervene. Emergency services have been kept on the road and paths cleared for them in the areas I know people.

The far right ideals and racism are not the purpose. How the government responded - mainly the inflammatory language they used - really annoyed people and that's what has made the protests a meeting ground/media opportunity for the far right. Everything has just spiraled then (Ports, forecourts, oil storage etc). A complete mess. A lot of what pops up on my social media does not align with what I have been hearing/seeing from family and friends on the ground.

Making more money may be more accurate. Yes of course the money goes back to “services”…..though the waste and mismanagement of the money they receive is another thread. My point is previously the govt were getting x % of £1.40 for every litre of diesel they’re now getting x% of £1.99 for every litre of diesel.

So their income has jumped up…..they could afford therefore to temporarily cut the tax? Maybe cutting the tax is more complicated than that. I suspect though the govt are happy for the increase in revenue. God knows the spending seems out of control and they’re always saying there isn’t enough money for xyz.

But is it just a short term problem?

2 and 3 year hedge prices are at the same rate as they were in January