AIBU to think we are edging worryingly close to anarchy?

[Noras]

Am I unreasonable to believe that we are 2 or 3 steps away from anarchy?

Just that really. We see endless footage of quite aggressive and in the open. Shop lifting. People seem to have no shame eg driving over parkland or chucking rubbish out of car windows. Kids ran amok in Cornwall. People decide to live in caravans anywhere and just poo in parkland. Fly tipping is rife.
People freely wal: around the streets under the influence of drugs. People go to upmarket gyms with ankle tags and no sense of shame. People are more abusive and rude.

Do you honestly think the gap between rich and poor is bigger than ever? So 100 or so years ago when poor people had to work with shitty conditions in factories and big houses and be ordered around or they would starve?

In fact all of those things have been present for decades. It was never any better.

The suggestion of anarchy in the U.K. because people are living in caravans and fly tipping, has to be the most British thing I’ve seen. Particularly because those who cause anarchy are the ones who are most affected. Can we see a bunch of middle class Mumsnetters rioting to fight the system? Throwing Mumsnet chickens chanting “give your head a wobble” with a tinkly laugh?

And when did we agree on a shared set of values?

The only values that every person have are doing the best for themselves/their loved ones.

Pretending otherwise just leads to disappointment.

But it may be heading that way… when people in the middle - particularly the lower middle are treated as cashpoints whilst society seems to crumble, then hell yeah I’m going to be waving my MN chicken and maybe the sound of a million “tinkly laughs” will drown out foolish marchers, the suicidal empathy brigade and anyone else excusing or denying the decline of society.

I remember when I was growing up it was national news that we had had a murder in our town (Cheltenham). We have more now, not even sure they make the news. This week a pensioner was punched to death on the footbridge to Waitrose by feral teens.

It is not the town it was.

Time to take off those rose tinted glasses. The utopia you think you remember didn’t exist. There was no honour amongst thieves. People have fallen for the mythology of people like the Krays, largely due to their own PR campaign, but they were violent thugs who killed innocent people and controlled their own community with fear and intimidation. They targeted other criminal gangs too. The Great Train Robbers brutally attacked the driver simply because he wouldn’t make the train do something it wasn’t capable of doing, they then threw each other under the bus to save their own skins. Ronnie Knight established “Costa del crime” and was ruthless in exploiting anyone. None of this was honourable.

Violent crime in particular rocketed in the 70s and continued through the 80s but has fallen to record lows in the decades since, as have all other crimes. Modern Britain has never been safer than it is now.

I don’t know where you are that there is an epidemic of people dropping their trousers to defecate in the streets but that isn’t the experience of the vast majority of people.

Oh yes, not disagreeing with that one bit.

Totally agree. What about the football violence prevalent in the 1980s as well.

People do themselves no favours harking back to ‘better times’. Every generation and every decade has its own good and bad stuff.

Ooh and the race riots in Toxteth and Brixton etc because of the endemic racism in the police force.

You’d take to the streets over flytipping and caravans?

I'd say it was the biggest in living memory.

I’m now beginning to dream of returning to the past and stopping Tim Berners Lee inventing the internet.

Just to name two - high streets (and malls) destroyed by online shopping, and social media… what a disaster. People made angry, manipulated, bad people able to find other bad people, pornography…

Sure, many aspects of the past were not so great but the internet is responsible for many ills (yeah, I know i’m on it before some smart arse says “oh, the irony”…).

Doesn't seem to put off all the tourists who visit in their thousands

Actually, Tim Berners- Lee is quite dismayed by how it's all panned out. He's currently involved in a project to try and restore some online checks and balances (menopausal brain can't remember the details)

This is more to do with 24 hrs rolling news and social media than it is do to with statistics.

My mum saw someone throw their McDonald’s rubbish out of the car window as they were driving. I think it’s disgusting behaviour. I have young kids who wouldn’t dream of doing that and this is the behaviour of grown adults. I’ve noticed fly tipping seems worse and the town centre in the city I live looks more rough everyday.

Probably because it isn’t based on any reality. 🙄

London is full of 'normal' people and is one of the most diverse cities in the uk

@BoredZelda - are you in denial about the volume of phone theft in London? Dh had his phone stolen - two kids put a plastic bag over his head when he was sitting at a table outside a restaurant - and dd in a separate incident wrestled her phone back from a woman thief.

I somehow doubt that the people acting like this are the hard working, ambitious types.

That’s my point. Previously only non ambitious people would’ve behaved like that.

Nowadays ‘ordinary’ people don’t have much to get excited about to are less inclined to want to stick to rules because it no longer pays off

Flytipping, littering etc is worse not because of people but because of policies. Local Councils putting in more and more restrictive rules for people to be able to get rid of waste. Fewer bin collections, higher charges for commercial waste, restrictions on access to waste/recycling centres. There a fewer bins in urban areas, they are emptied less frequently and are usually overflowing. When it comes to fast food outlets, there are more policy failures. Planning rules mean these places have to install or contribute to waste bins locally, but the regularity of emptying them is part of a voluntary code. Litter management plans are only as good as their execution and that isn’t regulated at all, it relies on locals to complain. The business model means there is a huge amount of waste generated, but also let’s charge for a bag. Sure we should all take our litter home, but it’s not always that simple. You pick up a meal deal at lunch, eat it in the park, what do you do with the rubbish? The solution is to buy the 10p carrier bag, which you also then discard, adding to the waste problem.

Our litter problems are the unintended consequence of evolving policies designed to cut down waste, but which have not considered how people live and work. Having said that, I drive a lot and have done for decades. Seeing people throwing litter from their cars is far less common than it used to be.

Reading this thread makes me so relieved that we moved to a place where all this malarkey doesn't happen. Some tourists behave appallingly but by and large it's a safe and peaceful place to live. I don't think I could hack it in a city now. When I visit, I can't wait to get home.

I’m not in denial, I check statistics. Phone thefts in London are down 12% from 2024.

It is still very high but that rise is a relatively new phenomenon. This is why, just like I wouldn’t take out £500 quid in cash and wave it about in London, I keep my phone secured and out of sight.