AIBU to think we are edging worryingly close to anarchy?

[Noras]

Am I unreasonable to believe that we are 2 or 3 steps away from anarchy?

Just that really. We see endless footage of quite aggressive and in the open. Shop lifting. People seem to have no shame eg driving over parkland or chucking rubbish out of car windows. Kids ran amok in Cornwall. People decide to live in caravans anywhere and just poo in parkland. Fly tipping is rife.
People freely wal: around the streets under the influence of drugs. People go to upmarket gyms with ankle tags and no sense of shame. People are more abusive and rude.

Id think the same - though I dont have enough money to buy a small holding. When the kids have flown the next I think id do that or have a patch of my own land as part of a bigger commune of like minded people, you know nice people, with manners and willing to share a bit for everyones mutual benefit.

But then I realised I sound like some crazy preppy hippy type, which im not, but thats where living in THIS society has left me feeling. It makes me sad, the majority seem so god damn selfish and self absorbed these days

Hasn't it always been the case that social fabric breaks down in times of increased poverty, less money for public services etc? We've had Covid, Brexit and now Trump's war driving up the cost of living, and therefore a less stable society and struggling public services. Certain crime rates (drugs, shoplifting) tend to increase at these times. I don't believe we're close to anarchy, and I don't recognise the description from the op (I live in a city by the way, before someone accuses me of being a countryside dweller). But I do think the UK is a far cry from the optimism of the late 1990s and early 2000s. And I do think there's a massive divide between people that Reform are exploiting very well. There's no doubt that the UK is struggling.

Where the hell are you seeing all these things? I live in one of the last ungentrified boroughs of London and just haven't a clue what you're talking about. Yeah some people are dip shuts, some are exceptionally nice and most are just getting on with life. Do you know what anarchy actually is?

I think the lows are getting lower.

I'm a 'countryside dweller' but grew up in west london. When i drive back through there now it looks run down and unpleasant.

Village life is busier than it was 25 years ago when i moved out here. More cars, more houses, but folks are the same. It's safe.

Oh yes and babies and small children being maimed by killer dogs ( nanny dogs )

This is an interesting angle, because I would think of the left as being the ones asking for 'basic standards', but I guess you're talking about 'basic standards of behaviour' and the Left (and me) would think 'basic standards of living'

I'd say that when you don't have basic standards of living for the vast majority while a tiny minority pulls further and further away from them in wealth, you will end up with lowered standards of behaviour as people become more desperate and angry. On top of this, public services have been slashed which leads to things we see now, like massive increases in shoplifting because there just aren't the resources to go after it.

FWIW, we're not on the edge of anarchy because I don't think people have enough time and energy to overthrow the government!

We're not allowed to judge anyone and everyone has a sob story that absolves them of taking any responsibility for themselves. People forget that judgement and the threat of ostracism from one's community serves a purpose and keeps peole in line.

Look at the bleeding hearts on here that wade in, calling people vile etc if anyone dares criticise a posters behaviour - often towards their children.

There's live and let live, and then there's a level of complacency that's detrimental to society.

Just because you havent seen it doesn't mean its not happening

Very true. Just because you've heard it made up on Gbeebies doesn't mean it's happening either.

BUT.. the statistics do prove what is and isn't happening. And they prove without a doubt that crime in almost all areas is down since 2005, and massively down since the mid 90s.

Anarchy tracks the line of inflation. The higher the prices for everything the more likelihood of civil unrest. It wasn’t an accident that the punk era happened in the 70s, another time of fast rising inflation.

I think people who think they are being driven to anarchy need to go and travel to some countries with really big societal problems.

I suggest you get off the internet and venture outside

Maybe just maybe not having the money to swan off round the globe on a whim is half the problem.

Those are all justifications of poor behaviour. There has always been a ruling elite and there has always been poverty. Poor people used to have standards, my grandmothers scrubbed the steps of their council houses until they gleamed. That was what you did, as that’s what your neighbours did and people had pride in themselves and their communities.

Are these reported crimes or actual crimes? I'm I find it hard to imagine what sort of crime I would actually report to police.
I didn't report having knife brandished at me by a drug abuse in the middle of the day in the high street over Christmas. I didn't report being punched in the stomach completely randomly by one of two teens I crossed paths with. Nor a neighbour with dementia throwing boiling water at me. Nor the person living in the communal bin area and cursing everyone and aggressively begging.
DS did report the two overseas prostitutes being managed by pimps in his block of flats, but it's still going on and every panel in his car was kicked in by the end of the week.
I don't think I'd report anything that didn't need a crime number.
Actually I did once try to report a missing person but was incorrectly told I couldn't.

This thread is peak Mumsnetter. Excellent work.

When those people have less and less basic standards, behaviour, rights, the lot, and get angry when they see it disappear before their eyes; they are accused of being on the right.

Hence the 'rise of the right wing' when it is just people wanting what had previously been known as 'basic'.

People don’t need to as they can travel a few kilometres up the road and they are transported into a country with big societal problems. There are still leafy pockets of England that are currently shielded from reality, but go into any big town nowadays and you’ll find all the problems you’re searching for.

The stats may show that. But what people are seeing is something different.

I see people living in tents, people living in vans, drug addicts, burnt out cars, cars with smashed windows, graffiti, litter, flytipping, shoplifting, boarded up shops. All these things have increased. I've got friends both male and female who've been stabbed or mugged.

Having said that, it's not all bad. I know lots of really nice people and this country is definitely worth fighting for.

Thank you @EverythingGolden, I was beginning to think I’d had my memories altered or something!

The eighties were a time of huge civil unrest in the UK.
The 90s to be honest were worse where I lived, drugs everywhere and drug-related HIV deaths were huge. Parts of my city were a no-go zone, when my family found out where I was living for college they tried to do an intervention! Some shops had security guards right enough, but when ‘I’ll stab ye with a dirty needle’ was the shoplifter’s stock in trade, you can bet they weren’t actually doing much to stop theft.
Noughties were OK, massive financial upheaval in 2008 of course and I think few people realise how close we REALLY came to ‘anarchy’ at that point.

Is people using their phones while driving and watching their videos on the train without headphones super annoying? Yes, of course it is. Are we perilously close to anarchy? Mate, anarchy involves putting your phone down and actually doing something. The British people could never. Tell that to your pals in the Reform press office OP.

So so true. I am in my 70's and it makes me so sad to see the state of this country now and the world in general.

I thank God every single day that me and DH made the decision not to bring children into this world

Why have you jumped to talking about Reform? Why the assumption that anyone who is concerned about the country’s trajectory into poor living standards and criminality is OBVIOUSLY a Reform voter? It’s assumptions like that that push people into more right wing politics. It’s damaging and tribal thinking.

Exactly this.

Step away from the Daily Mail, and look away from the Farage lure of “I can repair this, if you will kneel down and worship me”.

Yes, things feel tough at the moment. And some people (including me) actually feel rebellious, because of the utter contempt the government had for the public in 2020. And because successive governments have cut public services to the bone, especially the police, some people are getting away with crime, although probably not on the the Daily Heil would have us believe.

But I don’t think we’re anywhere near “anarchy” yet. Suppose people were so frightened of crime, that they mostly hid indoors, and refused to go to work, or go out at all. That would be anarchy.

That is absolutely not my assumption about the type of posts you describe. But on semi-literate dog whistle OPs about the rack and ruining of this once great nation then that is very definitely my starting point, which is why that particular comment is clearly directed to the OP.