AIBU to think we are edging worryingly close to anarchy?

[Noras]

Am I unreasonable to believe that we are 2 or 3 steps away from anarchy?

Just that really. We see endless footage of quite aggressive and in the open. Shop lifting. People seem to have no shame eg driving over parkland or chucking rubbish out of car windows. Kids ran amok in Cornwall. People decide to live in caravans anywhere and just poo in parkland. Fly tipping is rife.
People freely wal: around the streets under the influence of drugs. People go to upmarket gyms with ankle tags and no sense of shame. People are more abusive and rude.

The average income is around £40k - those people really aren't "fighting over the scraps".

The comments/complaints about "the rich" are over-done in my opinion. Yes, it's annoying that a tiny number of people are hugely wealthy, but taking an extra million from every one of them every year wouldn't touch the sides in redistributing it to everyone else. It's just the old "divide and conquer" to blame a tiny number of ultra rich.

In reality, not enough people are working, and too many are working part time.

Same with tax avoidance/evasion. Everyone blames the small number of ultra rich, but the biggest component of the official "tax gap" is the black economy and small business, with things like paying cash to avoid VAT, employing people cash in hand, etc.

It's a numbers game. Huge numbers of people evading/avoiding relatively small amounts (or not working all the hours they could), is a much bigger loss than a tiny number of ultra rich paying less tax than they arguably should.

Could you confirm what era was any different?

Given that this apparent massive shift is fairly recent, it coincides with a more relaxed parenting style.

Teachers being vilified by permissive parents for daring to tell little Johnny off (seen plenty on here), people expected to give their seats up for children etc - so I guess it’s hard for them to grow up with respect for others.

And yes I know people always moan about younger generations but whilst ruling by fear wasn’t ideal, it did ensure some kind of order in the main so there has to be a balance.

Capitalism only works with 5% unemployment. The whole concept requires us to be scared of becoming part of the 5%.
Nobody is right now
They need to get on with introducing the universal income and call a spider spade. I don’t think that’s 1,000,000 years away.

Again, I recommend that you read "A Paradise built in Hell" by Rebecca Solnit.

If it all turns out lovely, then fine, but it sounds like she has way too much faith in people in the event of a total world collapse

But cheese and butter is not in cages all across the country, it tends to be in deprived areas which lets face totally supports the argument about the sizemic gap between the wealthiest and the poorest.

In the last week I have seen 3 cars go through a red light. While turning right this morning on a green filter light a car coming from the opposite direction drove straight on through the red light.
Last week going left on a roundabout the car on my right was going right but decided to speed off despite a large SUV with large trailer on his right already entering the roundabout. One of those moments where you can't believe your eyes. How he missed the SUV I don't know. Two of many sightings these past few weeks.

no courtesy on the roads. People flicking Vs etc instead of apologising for their mistakes .
Road rage never heard that word in previous decades
Problem is nobody wants to accept when they are wrong.

I’m so tempted to carry one of those tiny little hammers around that you just tap the windscreen glass with it all collapses
The next person that gives me the V I might catch up with them at traffic lights

Again, when was there NOT a huge gap?

Just because someone is poor, doesn’t mean they will thieve. You can’t blame the whole of society for people stealing.

I know it’s the thing on MN to assume that people are just trying to feed their families so everyone should turn a blind eye if they see someone shoplifting.

Unfortunately this means they continue to do it, which has a knock on effect with prices etc. Why should most people have to pay for goods when others just help themselves?

I am a pedestrian and have often fantasised about carrying a cattle prod 🤣

I’d actually rather they steal than claim benefits if I’m being deadly honest with you
Henry Ford made the very good points that he needed every Ford worker to be able to buy a Ford car
When people can’t afford to buy Tesco’s goods whilst working in Tesco’s the world’s gone fucking mad

MN always had a lot of virtue signalling about not reporting people for theft or for benefit fraud. It blows the mind!

Someone with a child in tow stealing baby formula MIGHT be doing it to feed their child or they MIGHT be doing it to sell it on.

Yet most people apparently would turn a blind eye - it’s mad!

There is a trove of evidence that shows that COL, housing affordability and wage stagnation have all become consistently worse over time.

I don’t live in the UK and am constantly surprised at the notion of a “good wage” or “average wage”. For how long has 40k been a “good wage” and how have COL pressures and housing costs changed along with that figure?

That is not to bash the UK, we have the same problems here, but seem to be more aware of it.

Do you think £40k isn’t a good wage?

It’s all relative isn’t it? 40,000 living at home fine?
40,000 with responsibilities not fine

Are you serious? £40k with responsibilities is a lot of money! If you earn that and can’t afford to live, I have no sympathy at all. Esp if you have two people earning similar.

MN is a different bloody planet sometimes.

In 1970, the Gini coefficient for wealth, a standard measure of inequality (0 = total equality, 1 = maximum inequality), was approximately 0.60–0.65 for wealth, indicating substantial but not extreme disparities. In 2025 the figure was 0.74–0.75, one of the highest in developed countries.

It’s not about what I think or how people “feel” about their wage. That’s my point. It’s only part of the picture.

Well read it, and then you'll be able to have an informed opinion, won't you?

It’s not about what I think or how people “feel” about their wage. That’s my point. It’s only part of the picture.

Nah if that’s what she believes then I think I will pass

Worried that a well argued opposing point of view, illustrated with ample examples, will change your mind? OK then....🙄

Out of interest, on what do you base your supposition that everyone is horrible and out for themselves? Because someone down the post office gave you a funny look? Or is it based on any further research and reading?

You’d never heard of road rage? There was a huge spate of cases in the mid to late 90s, forever in the media - it was what led Tracey Anderson’s story to be initially believable when she killed her fiance.

It is based on 55 years of experience. Mine and others.

Not everyone is evil but everyone is ultimately about self. Like most animals, survival is a primary instinct. People do what suits them and their loved ones. I don’t think it’s a bad thing necessarily.

And no I am not worried about that. I’m not going to spaff a tenner on a book by someone I have never heard of