To not understand what this parent was thinking?

[Frequency]

While out with my rottweiler x this afternoon, I noticed he was panting more than I was comfortable with, so I abandoned our walk and took a detour to the nearest shop to buy him a bottle of water.

I crouched down at the edge of a very wide path to give him a drink. I wasn't paying attention to what was around me because I was watching the dog, and no one had any reason to be near us anyway. The pavement is about 8 feet wide on that street, if not wider. We were right at the edge, by the shop window.

The second I stood up, there was a toddler, eye-to-eye with my dog. He must have run up behind me while I was kneeling. He was literally nose to nose with the dog, reaching his hands out to grab/stroke the dog's face.

My dog is friendly but a little wary of small children, so I tend to keep him away from them.

Luckily, DD was with me and had spotted the kid and managed to hold his hands before he grabbed the dog's face and loudly told him, "Sorry, he's scared of kids, and he's just trying to have a drink, can you leave him alone, please?" She had to say it loudly because his mum and her friend had continued walking and were now a good 10 feet away from us. At this point, the mother then shouted at her other small child (around 7 or 8) to "get the baby," so the dog now had 2 kids to contend with while the mother kept walking away, ranting about how the young girl was supposed to be "watching the baby."

DD has anxiety and was really shaken by it, and can't stop thinking about how much worse it could have been if our dog were not friendly, or if the kid had managed to grab the dog's face and spooked/hurt him.

I still just cannot fathom what the mother was thinking, allowing her toddler to run up to a strange dog who was obviously eating/drinking, get nose to nose with him to try to grab him, and then send a second child over after she's made aware he is not a friendly dog?

Surely it is common sense to know that nose-to-nose with a strange, large breed dog, who is eating/drinking, is not a safe place to be, no matter how friendly the dog is?

Both needed to be more aware. I’m not condoning the parent’s actions in case you misunderstood that.

I’ve lost count of children who have come up and laid their head against my dog’s face, smacked them in the face, slapped them on the back, thrown pebbles etc. My boy dog (a rescue) never reacted but my girl dog (not a rescue) is very wary of children, and I always keep her away from small children. You did everything right, OP, and sadly it’s always the dog’s fault if something happens.

Her first thought was what if the child goes on to do the same thing to a dog that is not friendly like ours.

That would never be a first thought in a situation like that OP. Not in the moment. It’s something you’d ruminate on and worry about later. Forgive me, but I think you’re trying to rewrite history a bit.

In your first post you said:
DD has anxiety and was really shaken by it, and can't stop thinking about how much worse it could have been if our dog were not friendly, or if the kid had managed to grab the dog's face and spooked/hurt him.

You daughter was clearly afraid of the consequences if the toddler accidentally frightened or hurt your dog. You said that. Even though your dog is generally friendly you have also said he is wary of children and that it is possible he would display aggression in the wrong circumstances (as most dogs could). No doubt your adult daughter was aware of this too.

You are quite right, that child shouldn’t have got anywhere the dog, as their parent or someone responsible should be supervising them!

Really? I wasn't aware you knew my DD. Have you known her long? And when did you speak to her to confirm this?

You must be really close to her to know what she was thinking at the more than me, who was actually there at the time and have known DD and the dog for 23 and 6 years respectively.

I know way too much about anxiety and how it works (for unfortunate reasons I won’t go into here).

Ask your daughter what her first thoughts were when she saw the toddler reach for your dog. Her thoughts at that literal moment in time.
I can guarantee worrying about the toddler’s future safety around other dogs came later.

I didn't need to ask her; she told me immediately afterwards when we were walking away. Her first thought was "Oh my god. That was scary. Is that woman an actual idiot? Who the fuck let her out of the house unsupervised with a child? What if that kid did that to a dog that wasn't friendly like ours is?" Followed by "imagine if he'd hurt Wriggles, or spooked him. He could have run into the road and been hit by a bus. Oh God, what if he'd pulled you into the road with him?"

It is literally right there in the OP that her first thought was the child repeating the behavior with a less friendly dog. If you have trouble with reading comprehension, maybe you could ask a family member to explain my post to you rather than making things up.

Yes you’ve confirmed you haven’t read OP’s posts 👏 👏

In the moment of time the incident was occurring she was afraid of your dog’s reaction to being spooked, eg by bolting into traffic dragging you with him. Perhaps she was afraid of him snapping too, as dogs can do if they are frightened. I can’t be sure of course, but it seems reasonable to suppose that, because one can never be 100% sure of a terrified animal’s response as you have acknowledged upthread.

In any case her first thought would have been your dog’s potentially negative response to the child, whatever form that might take.

Thoughts on safety in the future (of the toddler with other dogs in this case) come afterwards. It can be shortly afterwards but they’re never the first instinctual response.

At the moment of time the incident was occurring, her first thought was what if this child did this to a dog that is not friendly.

It. Is. Right. There. In. The. OP. FFS.

Maybe this is because DD was raised around dogs and clearly has a greater degree of understanding of their behaviour and how they should be managed than you do, that her first instinct differs from what yours would be. Or maybe it's just because she knows our dog and judges him on his behaviour, not his weight/looks, unlike yourself.

It has been drummed into her since she could crawl that you do not approach any dog, not even our own, you call the dog to you, and you always ask the owner before approaching a strange dog.

You never, ever under any circumstances approach a dog who is eating, drinking, sleeping or chewing your favourite Barbie.

And you never approach a strange dog head-on or reach for his head/face.

OK. I don’t believe that was her very first thought that’s all. It’s not human nature to think in that manner.

I think you’re portraying it as such in an effort to minimise the situation here, to minimise the potential danger a spooked dog presents to a toddler. Probably because you don’t want to muzzle.

I don’t know why you think I know little about dogs. We have always had dogs, giant breeds too, so I am familiar with caring for large dogs. I don’t have one presently as the kids are allergic unfortunately.

This is the weirdest hill to die on. ‘Human mature’ allows for quite the wide range of immediate responses, and I’d trust the daughter’s report of her own over the opinion of a someone that doesn’t even know her.

OP and her daughter were responsible here. The person who wasn’t was the parent of the toddler.

@Galtymore seems to be very opinionated on dog threads, trying to stir up trouble? 🤔

I love dogs, though the kids have allergies which makes that difficult now unfortunately. Love children too.

I don’t know what you mean about trying to stir up trouble on dog threads.

He’s not unpredictable though? The owner knows he is wary of kids (predictable), but she didn’t ’predict’ that a poorly supervised toddler would be up in his face like that.

Sensible dog owner behaviour from someone who clearly understands their dogs signals and won’t push him to the point of discomfort. Ignore some of the idiotic comments on here!

A lot of dogs are wary of kids. Noisy, unpredictable fast moving, space invaders. I wish more people would realise this, especially if the child is a stranger to the dog.

So many ignorant comments. Does it matter if he’s a rescue or not? Any responsible parent would not allow their child to approach a dog regardless of the situation. They’re not toys. If a dog is not used to being around children and the way they move and behave differently to adults then why is it their fault if they can’t manage it. It’s not. Entitled adults

Hang on, any dog who is surprised can behave in an unexpected manner because they were scared - and some dogs (and horses, and people), have much more developed startle reflexes than others. The OP’s daughter did do what they needed to to keep the toddler away but also, toddlers are FAST when they want something so it’s not that surprising that they didn’t see them coming.

Ultimately the parent should be teaching their child that they CAN’T approach unknown dogs without their owners’ permission. It is not safe. It’s not safe with the most loveable soppy Labrador who has raised generations of their owners’ children and wouldn’t hurt a fly - because at the end of the day, they could still kill them if they decided to.

How the law might apportion blame if something goes wrong doesn't change how parents and carers should act to keep children safe.

If your dog has any unpredictability at all around anyone it should not be out in public without a muzzle.

Can we extend this to teenagers?