AIBU to think overseas American and UK bases should close?

[Weemammy21]

AIBU for thinking now is the time for overseas American and UK bases to be closed? America has repeatedly abused their overseas bases to start wars with countries just to plunder and steal their natural resources, murder innocent civilians and kidnap and kill leaders of other countries. America is doing what is best for America and not helping the countries they start war with so should a serious discussion not be started about closing down all American and UK overseas bases that are used to hold and torture innocent civilians that they could not legally detain in America? Who voted for America to be the world's policeman with a lunatic running it and using his wars to fill his and his cronies coffers.

The US is a rogue state. Its conduct has been questionable for the last 70 years but now the mask has slipped entirely.

The premise of the AIBU was quite a good one.
But then the OP quickly exposed themselves as more deranged and biased then DJT himself.

Rogue state is usually what we call the likes of Iran, DPRK, Russia. I don't think the US is anywhere near that category. I suppose it's a bit like the Met police. Yes, lots and lots of failings. But massively better to have than not, especially if you are relatively vulnerable (i.e. China might prefer the US to hand in its world-police badge, though even that is nuanced. No other Asian nation would want it. Fine to do away with the police if you live in a nice gated community and can afford your own protection. Not fine to do away with the police if you are basically anyone else). Unless you have a different police force ready to police London, foolish to argue for its abolition.

What "special relationship"? When was the last time the UK benefited? Were they on our side over Suez? I don't recall the US going in when a military junta invaded British sovereign soil either. Obama described Germany as the US's closest international partner. I do however recall a British PM following Bush around like a poodle. It seems very one-sided to me.

At least if the American military are kicked out from bases in the UK, the roads surrounding them will be a lot safer.

The French never trusted them, Charles de Gaulle was right all along.

Lay off on the OP! You know what she means - to many people in N Ireland, the occupation by British troops was seen as just that, an occupation of disputed territory that they didn't think should be considered part of the UK at all. In any case, she used the word "overseas" and the Irish sea is indisputably there.

Interestingly, many of the British involved in the torture of Irish citizens had done the exact same thing earlier, in a different overseas military base. But don't just take my word for it. The British Govt has since admitted that this happened, and even the BBC reported it at the time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19843719
The Govt ended up paying costs and compensation of almost £20million to Kikuyu survivors.

A lot of this was covered up for decades, with many records being burnt and others taken to London and buried in secret archives. This didn't just happen in Kenya, but in other colonies where the British had bases.
Read more:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/aug/18/uncovering-truth-british-empire-caroline-elkins-mau-mau
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-29/mau-mau-kenyan-resistance-group-secret-british-files/104136814
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/how-the-british-treated-hardcore-mau-mau-women

Yes, you are being unreasonable.

These overseas bases form an essential part of our defence - particularly if, as seems likely, the USA pull out of NATO and the Europeans - including for this purpose the U.K. - actually have to think about and fund our own defence which has been heavily subsidised by the US for years.

Do leave off. 🙄

Rogue state is usually what we call the likes of Iran, DPRK, Russia.

Yes, exactly. Look at all the statements that the administration has made about Iran. A theocracy which shoots protestors, threatens its neighbours and has nuclear weapons. If the cap fits, wear it.

Look at the utter cack-handed handling of Afghanistan and Iraq. Look how they've been backing Russia against Ukraine recently. And the DPRK? Trump was very admiring of Kim Jong Un, because he's everything Trump wants to be.

"Rogue state is usually what we call the likes of Iran..."
And why is that exactly?
Is there anything that the state of Iran does which the US doesn't also do?
Never mind Israel, the most rogue state going....

I note that unlike them, Iran does not go out attacking other states with the aim of illegally occupying them, stealing their land/ houses/ resources, desecrating ancient monuments/ libraries/ religious sites, killing the people and animals who live there, or leaving the land so polluted that it can't be safely used to grow anything.

Anyone who claims to care about the planet might want to watch this film:
4
And learn about the many heart-breaking ways in which the US Empire is destroying the ecosystems we all rely on for life, on an almost unimaginable scale. It's accountable to nobody at all, and most certainly not the American tax-payers who are funding it all.

Three for three wrong, I think.

The US is not a theocracy. Trump isn't even particularly religious. It's also absurd to compare how the US treats political dissidents to how Iran, DPRK, Russia does. In fact, you have stronger rights to politically dissent in the US than almost anywhere else on earth. And 'has nuclear weapons' does not make a state a rogue state.

I don't like how the US handled Afghan or Iraq. I'm not sure what Trump is trying to do with Russia and DPRK and suspect he doesn't really know either (but Trump is certainly not looking for a Russian win). But that is not the question in point. The question is whether we should want the US to withdraw from all its overseas bases, i.e. to cease to be a global power. I think that would be much worse, for all the reasons I've stated, including or especially for weaker people and states.

Who carried out kneecapping?
Who ran drugs rackets in the housing schemes?
Who covered up child abuse amongst high up personnel?
Who blew up Christmas shoppers outside Harrods?
Who blew up a crowd at a remembrance parade?
Who targeted children in Warrington and Manchester?

Zombie.

Are you serious. Iran has been funding arming and training hamas, hezbola, the PLO and many other terrorist organisations with the aim of converting the population and or taking control of that country since the revolution.

Beyond time. It's clear that Trump has no use for NATO and so far from coming to its defence has actually threatened one of its founding members with invasion : Denmark. Mark Carney is right, nostalgia isn't a strategy.

@Longtimelurkerfinallyposts
Is there anything that the state of Iran does which the US doesn't also do?

Execution for homosexuality,
Flogging, amputation and stoning as a court sentence.
Execution of juvenile offenders (US abolished in 2005, far too late. Iran continues)
Bars religious minorities from university and govt employment,
Women imprisoned, beaten, and killed for no hijab.
Hostage diplomacy
Theocratic veto over all branches of govt.
Assassination of dissidents at home and abroad.
Targeting Jewish community centres, synagogues, and diaspora globally
Proxy terrorism across the Middle East

Iran does not go out attacking other states with the aim of illegally occupying them, stealing their land/ houses/ resources, desecrating ancient monuments/ libraries/ religious sites [...and environmental harm].

How much do you know about Iran? It controls, via proxies, lots of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. In Syria displacing Sunni populations and doing lots of looting. Iraq desecration of Mosul mosques and shrines by Shia militia. It's one of the world's top oil producers (as is the US, of course). And only last week I was reading about the Iranian water crisis which is affecting millions and undermining agriculture.

You are welcome to find lots wrong with the US. You don't need to whitewash the Tehran regime to do so.

I am completely serious.
The United States has a long history of funding, arming and training such groups.
Just one example of many: the CIA funded and supported Osama Bin Laden for many years!

For many years, the US Army/ CIA operated the School of the Americas, in order to train people to carry out coups (usually against popular left-wing leaders) and set up dictatatorships across Central and South America - its alumni include such lovely characters as Noriega (drug-lord and unelected dictator of Panama), Banzer Suarez (right-wing Bolivian dictator). Lots of repression, human rights abuses and millions of people killed/ disappeared or forced to flee and seek asylum.

They are still an ally, a global major player and someone to keep on our side.

There'd be large fallout. Firstly on intelligence and defense. There'd be a hurt in economic activity in these areas as well. And diplomatically this would hurt us.

The Harry Dunn thing was a very sad but incredibly rare tragedy.

Not something that i would agree with. Not all counties are our friends and we dont live in a peaceful world. And countries can be our friend one day and turn into enemies the next day.

Isn't it up to the countries?

So if we have an airbase in another country, if they want us to go away, they can tell us that. Why would we close voluntarily?

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

There are no UK military bases in the Republic of Ireland. The closest you'll find is the RAF providing intercept services to the Republic of Ireland's airspace, at the behest of the Irish.

Are you drunk OP?

It's important to realise though, that if Trump takes the US out of NATO (which would prove legally difficult) the US will find themselves without a great deal of shared intelligence.

Trump is a bully and a fool. The US Intelligence services are not stupid. They will not support an exit from NATO.

They very much are a theocracy, the "Christian Right" have a massive amount of influence. Trump might not be a believer but he's only the monkey, the organ grinders who came up with Project 2025 certainly believe. It's a theocracy trying to remove rights from women. Look at what some military officers were telling their men on the outbreak of the war against Iran. Some of the nutters seriously want to trigger "the rapture" they believe is coming.

They've shot several protestors - some fatally, some with life-changing injuries. OK, not the numbers the Iranians have shot but still lives taken regardless of their 1st Amendment rights. They went straight in with the lies when they did so, luckily the narrative quickly went against them when they threatened to restrict people's rights under the 2nd Amendment. The freedom of the press is seriously under threat. Much of the media has been bought up by the oligarchs, while agencies are refused access to White House press conferences if they don't toe the official line. Fox News makes DPRK state propaganda look normal by comparison. The Supreme Court has been heavily stacked on a partisan basis and loyalists are being installed in lower courts. Trump previously incited an attempted coup d'etat and has been doing his best to corrupt the electoral process - as if there wasn't already heavy voter suppression in red states. The corruption, embezzlement and insider trading are off of the charts - it's like a banana republic. The Pentagon has just threatened the Vatican, for goodness sake. If not a rogue state then why behaving like one?

I'm not sure what Trump is trying to do with Russia and DPRK and suspect he doesn't really know either
He's a puppet, why would he know? What we do know is that any time that he does start getting serious with Russia he gets a phone call from Vladimir (whose aides have been coached on how to manipulate Trump by Witkoff) and hey presto, TACO. And now the Iran war has hugely benefitted Putin. If he wasn't a Russian asset, what would he do differently?

The question is whether we should want the US to withdraw from all its overseas bases, i.e. to cease to be a global power.
What may happen to Taiwan is a concern. Russia Is not. The US hasn't been doing anything serious to counter them in Ukraine for the last year and Russia is currently losing there. The only thing Russia has got left to threaten the rest of Europe with are nukes and hybrid warfare. Britain and France can keep the nukes at bay by promising Mutually Assured Destruction and I don't see how the US removing itself from Ramstein will make Russia's cyber warfare and election interference any worse. Heck, JD Vance has just been in Hungary to interfere in the elections there - for the pro-Putin candidate!

With allies like that, who needs enemies?

The one good thing is that the Senate saw the writing on the wall and banned him from doing that without permission in the NDAA 2024. More recently two senators have introduced the bipartisan NATO Unity Protection bill.

Are they? Because I’m actually in the gulf right now, no the bases do not bring all this stuff you are talking about, there were mass movements of patriot missiles etc into the gulf before this kicked off and most of these countries do actually have their own armies and airforces. There are also Ukrainians being extremely helpful.

What is fractured is the arab league and the relationship between Pakistan and the uae. Most countries are functioning as normal with a little bit of strain. The leadership is not blaming the USA or Israel (despite great hostility towards Israel) it is very much about Iran being completely unreasonable.

I seriously doubt you know anything about the middle east apart from what you see on tiktok.

They didn’t fund bin laden, he comes from a billionaire family (construction money). They funded the numhadeen. Taliban is a Pakistani creation.

Someone told me Israel created isis the other day. I do love a good conspiracy theory.