School as child care

[Differentforgirls]

From another thread.

A poster said that state schools are there for helping parents to work. Therefore teachers are childminders. Teachers!

I think schools are there to educate our children and, though the staff go above and beyond these days, that is their primary function.

AIBU?

I haven’t once insulted you. You just seemed to have started a thread without first deciding what point you were wanting to make, then telling everyone that commented about you being really opaque that they were proving your point, then telling people that if they couldn’t work out what your point was they must be poorly educated, but I’m still none the wiser as to what your point is.

My day to day job is personal tax litigation, and yet tax legislation is so much more decipherable than whatever point you think you are making - and that’s saying something! But hey I guess I simply can’t have valued my education enough.

I’m a former teacher. I think it says a lot about how we view all types of care that teachers view it as very demeaning that they might care for children as well as educate them. One way I think primary education especially (but secondary too) has gone wrong is in not caring for children and seeing this as “wasted time”. The blame for this lies very much in an overstuffed curriculum and in OFSTED. But for most parents sending off their 5 year old, they first and foremost want their child to be happy and well cared for. It’s terribly sad that we can’t view caring for children as every bit as skilled and worthwhile part of teaching as phonics.

I agree - we also can’t make significant changes to our educational systems - for example changing start times, changing how learning is delivered time and place, etc etc because society has become reliant on the childcare element of school.

Change needs to start with employers though to give working parents more flexibility before any significant educational progression can be made.

Why is it disrespectful to say teachers are caring for children while they are also educating them?
We all know that school is about education and their primary function isn’t enabling parents to work BUT the childcare element is important to many parents. That doesn’t mean they don’t value education or the role of a teacher in educating their children.
It just means it’s an extra form of childcare which allows them to work.

Early Learning.

and childcare!

I didn’t state that I feel this way because my son is a teacher and he doesn’t teach primary. Read.

It has nothing to do with my son. He isn’t a primary teacher.

I’m a governor at a primary school which has a pre school. We very much view pre school as childcare and work closely with the local private nursery because we know the pre school hours are not conducive to work.
Both providers follow the EYFS curriculum while providing childcare.

Term time and half days.

Yes. And?

It’s not childcare. It’s different in Scotland. We don’t have reception. Also, nursery classes don’t take babies. It’s age 3-5.

It is childcare. Just like the pre school at private nursery is childcare.
What do babies have to do with it?
Private nurseries have specific spaces for babies and toddlers but they also have pre schools which follow the same curriculum as school based pre schools.

It’s all childcare at the end of the day.

I didn’t use it as childcare. They went in their pre school year for two afternoons to get them used to being away from us and in a learning setting.

So you are telling me my daughter's school attached nursery isn't childcare? Yet the private nursery she attends on other days is? In scotland. Yet the staff in both have the exact same level of qualifications. Or is every child from 3 NOT in childcare?

So because YOU didn’t use it for childcare means it isn’t childcare?
How blinkered of you.

Education and care can't be separated. You can't deliver the education without providing all sorts of care, and the care is also part of the education. There's nothing wrong here.

Rude again. I read it, that is how I know your son is a teacher. Why mention his occupation if it is irrelevant to the thread? This was my point, you make misleading statements then complain when posters are confused by what you are saying. You didn't mention the occupation of your other DC.

My DD went to pre school for full days two days a week with the option of starting at 7.30 and finishing at 6. I paid for her to go 9 until 3.30. The pre school class share a classroom with reception. Then two other days she went to nursery, where she recieved a very similar level of education and care.

Its a balance.
The economy needs children to be educated. In all honesty with the right learning materials, and children with no sen, the vast majority of parents could teach their own children a lot of the primary curriculum (its much easier to teach one or two kids than manage the needs of a highly varied class of 30!). Schools are much more economically efficient as by educating children in large groups more adults are freed up for other work. Schools are also very useful in socialising children to behave /manage/operate in groups, with lots of opportunity to cooperate and share and play with peers, something that might have happened naturally in village communities of the past but might not happen so readily with modern nuclear family living.

I've read all the replies. This thread has come off as looking to bash working parents and digressed from the original question.

In terms of this original question, I agree with many posters that teachers are not childminders but they are caring for children. They are responsible for them while they are in school. Otherwise parents would have to be present throughout the school day, they are therefore providing both education and care.

Regarding other parts of what's been discussed in this thread..

So OP worked in settings (schools) where they close over school holidays allowing OP to be at home for your kids?
We don't all have the AL entitlement you said that you and your husband have and work jobs where we cannot be available to pick our kids up from school. Yes , it's our choice to be parents. But should I stop doing a job that is really needed in society (social work) (and I also just worked hard to achieve my degree and enjoy the job) because I can't be off work for holidays or do school pick ups? This is what wraparound care is for. Children are in school to be educated as it's primary purpose but I don't understand why it is also offensive to say that schools are also providing care to children. If something happened to child such as a medical issue they would provide first aid. That's providing care.

I never worked term time and my husband was a social worker.

Sign me up to his local authority! Would love as much time off as that in school holidays...! Any older social worker will tell you the demands of the jobs , needs of our clients , have significantly changed over the years. But that's a whole other thread 😅

Also you say you never worked term time only. I appreciate teachers absolutely work over holidays but school buildings close so you must have been completing some work at home? Therefore allowing you to care for your children at the same time? Many people cannot do any work from home at all.

I expect the OP had significant family help, particularly in the early years. Or sufficient funds for a nanny, though that sounds difficult on 1.5 salaries unless v well paid and social work isn't famous for that.

I'm not sure how much more flexible employers need to be. Allowing you to work through the night? Or with kids bouncing on the bed behind you? I did both of these in lockdown to juggle WFH with home schooling and childcare and it was as flexible as it possibly could have been but also shit, and not conducive to having any other kind of a life. We all sighed with relief when school went back to on site learning, and I also used holiday clubs.

In the OP's view I probably shouldn't have had kids at all as I had put insufficient thought into their care during school hours and outside. I still have zero clue why she thinks this.

In the OP's view I probably shouldn't have had kids at all as I had put insufficient thought into their care during school hours and outside. I still have zero clue why she thinks this.

Absolutely, but when you dig abit deeper OP worked when her DC were at school. The hours her DC weren't being cared for by school her or her DH took AL. She seems to be judging women in exactly the same situation as herself as bad parents.