Aibu to hate Michael Gove?

[merrycola]

AIBU to hate Michael Gove for single-handedly creating the “overdiagnosis” crisis he’s now nowhere near enough to answer for?
Because let’s connect the dots.
He made the curriculum harder, narrower, and more rigid. Ofsted built an inspection framework around it that treats children like data points. And now — years later — we’ve got CAMHS referrals through the roof, school avoidance at record levels, exclusion rates climbing, teachers quitting in droves, and a growing media narrative that too many children are being diagnosed and parents are being pushy.
But nobody seems to want to say the obvious thing: we didn’t suddenly produce a generation of broken children. We built a system that broke the environment around them and then pathologised the ones who couldn’t cope.
The strategies that actually help — clear instructions, sensory breaks, mutual respect, not shouting — aren’t special needs strategies. They’re just good teaching. But there’s no time for good teaching when you’re trying to force a curriculum designed by a man who apparently thinks childhood is an inefficiency to be optimised.

And here’s what really gets me. Every education secretary since could have undone it. But none of them have, because reversing course would mean admitting the whole framework was wrong and that it’s been harming children for over a decade. So instead we get headlines about overdiagnosis and parents wanting labels for benefits, while the man who lit the match is off doing whatever Michael Gove does now.

We didn’t get an overdiagnosis crisis. We got a system that can’t admit it failed, so it diagnosed the kids instead.

Just like with neurotypical people of course some ND people will be unpleasant or bullies. It isn’t a personality type. There’s absolutely no correlation between the two though. The myth that autistic people lack empathy has been thoroughly debunked, in fact academic research showed that on average they are more empathetic than neurotypical people, they just express it in a different way that is often misunderstood.

These are two separate issues:

1. Neurotypical people and ND people are both equally capable of being assholes. Violent and unacceptable behaviour should be dealt with no matter who is the perpetrator.

2. Children with disabilities should be provided with an appropriate environment for them in which they can learn, just like neurotypical children receive.

Agreed, except (and Im no massive fan of teachers), how do you think teachers cope with all of this as well? They didnt create the system

They're getting burnt out at a rate of knots as well, leaving the profession in droves and getting late diagnoses of ND, pathologised again.

I think teachers do understand to some degree but what can they do about it

I remember a meeting where we needed for a school to allow a child to have their hoody up in the day, they simply couldnt allow it as it would breach uniform rules, but she needed her hoody on with the hood up in order to cope emotionally. So she just kept getting detentions and in the end 'school cant meet need'

Well actually all the other stuff about school was managable and her behaviour was manageable, just not the uniform. Such a small thing which didnt need to happen. But Ofsted......

I agree. If you read my earlier posts on the thread you will see I have expressed great sympathy with teachers and the impossible position they are in where they cannot teach and are expected to put up with violence and unacceptable behaviour. I am devastated that the best teacher my son has ever had was driven out of his school last term. I have friends who are teachers. It’s absolutely shocking and one of my concerns about the proposed education reforms is that this will make the intolerable working conditions of teachers even worse and mean many more leave.

Nobody should have to put up with violence and abuse at work, and teachers cannot possibly do what’s being demanded of them in state schools because it is impossible for children with such completely different needs to be taught in one classroom. Therefore, the whole structure of the system has to change so that different schools are set up to meet the needs of different children. I can’t see any other viable solution. I don’t blame the individual teachers at all: all I have encountered are trying very hard to do an extremely hard job and having demands made on them that should never be part of their job in the first place. I think there are some very dubious Head Teachers who are not fit to hold those positions, but in terms of class teachers I am amazed at how they continue to cope at all in such an appalling system and have nothing but respect for them. I couldn’t do it.

Oh God yes, the obsession with uniforms!! I had to go through a two year discussion with my children’s school before my son was allowed to wear a plain white polo shirt in a soft fabric he could tolerate on his skin without a scratchy logo. A child who was 4 when this discussion began. This is what they are concerned about, rather than him not crying before school because the clothes hurt his skin and being able to come to school calm and comfortable and ready to learn?

School uniforms are a total nonsense. Have a few rules about what is acceptable and what is not and leave it at that.

Totally agree with you OP, I’m an experienced teacher and everything you say is 100% true

A common issue I have seen is physical violence ignored because the child is ND. The children that are victims of the violence don’t care why they are being attacked. They just don’t it want to happen again. Please.

I would quite like to be a teacher, I love information and learning and teaching that to kids. I have 2 degrees and a transferable professional qualification

No way would I do teaching in this current system either.

I agree. It also is hugely insulting to people who are ND. It has nothing whatsoever to do with violence. I even had a member of SLT at my children’s school try to excuse the repeated violent behaviour of a child in the same class of one of my children to me, an autistic woman with two autistic children (!) on the basis that they “suspect” that this child might be ND. And therefore, apparently, this excuses him beating up my child and many of his friends, punching girls in the face, vandalising people’s property. Children going home literally black and blue (not my child but I’ve seen photos from friends). Utterly disgraceful and it fuels the false perception that the problems in schools are being caused by ND children when the vast majority of the problems have nothing to do with this. This child was not overwhelmed and lashing out in a meltdown, he was doing these things in a calculated and deliberate manner when completely calm and laughing about it. That is not neurodiversity. I suppose it’s more palatable for the school staff to tell the parents that they suspect ND than that the child has either suffered some huge trauma or has a personality disorder, therefore people with genuine autism or ADHD which are almost entirely hereditary are cast as the problem and simultaneously have the funding that is meant to support their educations siphoned off to deal with behavioural problems which mostly have nothing whatsoever to do with disabilities.

Firstly, I am really sorry to hear about your children's experiences, and it must be really upsetting for you in having to support them in their distress as well as taking on the incredibly heavy workload involved with dealing with the SEN system, particularly as a lone parent.

One problem with your proposal to set up a small school for a child who is both autistic and extremely academically able is: where would it go? There would need to be enough autistic and extremely academically able children to populate it, but at the same time I'm assuming you would not want it to be residential so would need to be close enough to its cohort for them to be able to travel to it. The cost of running it would be extremely high, so pupils would only be sent there if there was an extreme need for it. Given I teach Maths and Further Maths A-level, I have experience of teaching quite a few academically able autistic children who have succeeded in mainstream education so I'm not sure what percentage of the population you are thinking about catering to, how many schools you would need, and what the logistics of travel would be. What if there were a school in the country suitable for your child but it was 150 miles away?

On the 'disruptive loud classrooms' note, there are schools that have sought to deal with this with extremely strict behaviour policies (e.g. Michaela in London). However these schools then come under criticism for not being good for autistic pupils in other ways (e.g. strict uniform, encouraging eye contact). I'm not sure what your thoughts are there.

You also seem averse to the idea of an autism unit within a mainstream school - why - as this appears to be the current direction of government policy?

It is obviously unacceptable that there are no schools suitable for your children nearby - you have talked about private schools not being able to offer enough bursary for you to manage fees - have you had a serious conversation with the local private schools about this about what they would be able to offer?

Thank you for replying.

Sorry — perhaps I phrased it badly — I did not mean that there should be a school specifically for academically able autistic children only. Neurotypical children who are academically able and calm and not disruptive would be perfect companions for my children (and are many of their closest friends, although the ND ones also seem to magnetise towards them). I actually don’t think it would be good for children like mine to go to a school full only of other autistic children: they need to learn how to function in a neurotypical world and with neurotypical behaviour norms, this is a crucial part of learning for them. They live in an entirely autistic household and most of our family is autistic as well! That last thing they need is a school just for autistic children.

What I am saying is that there should be a much wider variety of schools to cater for different needs. The academic and calm children who want to learn and are neurotypical get on very well with my children and they need a school with those children, with smaller classes.

Children with violence and behaviour issues need a school just for them with appropriately trained staff and proper boundaries.

Children with learning disabilities need enough SEN school places to go to as they cannot access the national curriculum and it’s just unfair on them to be in mainstream schools as well as presumably making it impossible for staff?

Children with various other non-academic talents should be able to go to schools with specialist teaching in these areas while doing core subjects so that they don’t have their self-esteem crushed and are not made to feel worthless and can actually develop their equally valuable non-academic skills?

So my point is that these schools should be everywhere. And there would be more than enough children to populate them. Each school could be smaller - particularly secondary schools. They don’t have to be 6 to 8 form intake. Why can’t there be different schools that are two form intake and specialise in different things? Most children would prefer this. They can be organised in groups like academies and share staff between them if that makes it more efficient to ensure subject specialists, but generally there isn’t one subject specialist in a secondary school anyway but multiple so I really don’t see the barrier of scaling schools down and making them more bespoke to actually fit the children’s needs better because they are not all the same. Lots of other countries do similar.

Some children need extremely strict behaviour policies: the children with behavioural issues. The answer isn’t applying that to all: some have no behaviour problems so DON’T need this rigid system, what they need is the children who DO have these problems not to be in the same school as them.

The complaint from teachers I see the most (with which I agree) is that it is impossible for them to meet all of the competing demands and needs which clash. So is the obvious solution not to provide a variety of schools that can meet the different needs so that children whose needs are manageable together are together?

An “autism unit” in a mainstream state school will not help my children in any way. Will subject specialists teachers come to the “unit” and teach them in small groups like they need? No. It will be the same as now at primary: they’ll be unable to access the learning everyone else is receiving in the classroom and sent off to some unit with TAs or whatever to do nothing much at all, or just read books on their own all day like they do now. These “units” also will not be differentiated by type of need so by being sent there:

1. their academic needs will not be met;
2. they will be made to feel “different” and othered and excluded which they already absolutely HATE hence them refusing to wear ear defenders at school now etc;
3. why should they not be able to access classroom learning like non-autistic children? We’ve proved they can if they are in a smaller group with non-disruptive children through their trial at a private school with smaller classes and no tolerance of violence and disruption, so why should they have to accept sub-standard education away from their peers in a “unit” when they are perfectly capable of being in the classroom in appropriate group sizes and if other people behave appropriately? Why should they have to miss out on their education and social interaction because other children can’t follow basic behavioural expectations?;
4. these “units” are not being differentiated by need so it will be a case of setting up a two tier system shoving all children with any kind of problem with the state school classroom of 30 plus awful behaviour into the “unit” i.e. they will be being sent there with precisely the children who cause the problems for them in the first place;
5. all of this is being proposed to try to save money, to remove EHCPs from many children who would have them now and instead have children’s needs assessed by non-medical school staff who (based on the ignorant comments and wildly out of date nonsense I’ve heard in recent years from them and supposedly “specialist” ASC team at the LA who are meant to advise schools on how to support autistic children yet don’t even seem to understand basics like masking etc) are completely incapable of doing this. As I understand it, one day of the PGCE is spent on SEND and subsequent training largely provided by the clueless Local Authority staff, so they have not the faintest idea what they are doing;
6. The funding proposed to do this is vastly less than the additional funding currently provided to schools on top of their budgets via EHCPs. Per my earlier post, if these proposed reforms go through they will equate to a real-terms cut (on top of the cuts already scheduled per the departmental spending review that Reeves conducted) or around 15-20% in real terms. Do you think schools can absorb that and suddenly meet the needs of these children without any actual specialists assessing properly what support they require as happens with the EHCP process?; and
7. it still does not address the issue for children like mine for whom the teacher in a mainstream state school CANNOT meet their academic needs, as the educational psychologist and their other specialists and school has confirmed, and also CANNOT meet their needs in terms of small classes to learn in, in a smaller setting with fewer people. How is a “unit” attached to an enormous school full of thousands of people most of whom they barely know going to be LESS overwhelming for them than primary school, which they already cannot attend?

Yes - I have been talking to private schools. See my posts above, where I explained about this.

Reforms were needed to the education system.

if the teachers union had worked with the government rather than oppose every suggestion it might have worked better

@Nepmarthiturn

The academic and calm children who want to learn and are neurotypical get on very well with my children and they need a school with those children, with smaller classes.

I don't think you can legally make 'calm' an entry criteria. Academic ability would be grammar schools but they certainly don't have smaller classes. Children who are academically able are generally expected to cope in larger classes.

Children with violence and behaviour issues need a school just for them with appropriately trained staff and proper boundaries.

These exist - PRUs. The threshold for being sent to one is extremely high though. We also need more of them.

Children with learning disabilities need enough SEN school places to go to as they cannot access the national curriculum

Certainly we need more special school places for pupils who cannot, despite best efforts, access the national curriculum.

Children with various other non-academic talents should be able to go to schools with specialist teaching in these areas while doing core subjects so that they don’t have their self-esteem crushed and are not made to feel worthless and can actually develop their equally valuable non-academic skills

This suggestion comes up a lot. It's the old grammar schools for the able, vocational schools for the less able system which was abandoned because it didn't actually do what it said on the tin. It's implied that children who are 'less academic' have 'other talents'. And that academic children do not have those 'other talents'. Whereas in reality there are children who are academically able also are good at sport, or drama or product design or whatever, and many children who are not amazing at maths or science are also not amazing at the other subjects. You also get kids who are great at maths and crap at English. Are they academically able or are they doomed to the 'other talents' school where their ability in maths is reduced to 'practical maths'?
And at what age would these 'other talents' be identified and kids filtered off into their appropriate schools? This was tried a few years ago with the UTC model where kids went off to 'more vocational' schools aged 14. The vast majority of UTCs were failures and closed very quickly with dreadful results.

Labour also tried the 'specialist school' thing pre-2010 with schools identifying a specialism and being awarded extra money for teaching it. There were schools with a language specialism, a sports specialism, a science specialism. That was mainly crap and also abandoned. At aged 11 kids mostly don't stand out in any clearly defined area and parents don't want to send them miles away to the 'sports school'. They want to send their kid to the local school where they can discover their talents and try a whole load of stuff out.

An “autism unit” in a mainstream state school will not help my children in any way. Will subject specialists teachers come to the “unit” and teach them in small groups like they need? No. It will be the same as now at primary

I've got a friend who teaches at a school with an autism unit and they didn't describe it like you think it is at all.

If you want to hate Muchael Gove for his schools reforms, do you also hate Rachel Reeves and Bridget Phillipson for making private education so much more unaffordable for these same children who could benefit so much from small class sizes, calm environments individual attention? Parents tend to be willing to do a lot of heavy lifting to support their SEND or ND children. Rather than slapping on VAT and ending ECHP, a means-tested grant to help cover fees in mainstream private schools to keep those pupils in education and safeguard their mental wellbeing would almost certainly have saved money for the state education system and supported better outcomes for the children.

No. Gove’s curriculum affects all children including those at independent schools because it controls exam specifications.
(Plus private education is only open to a small minority and price rises in the sector have been massive anyway over the last few years).

Private schools go ahead of and around the gcse curriculum, as well as getting the children ready for the exams; and they offer a lot of extra curricular outlets too. The classes are smaller and less noisy which is what some pp are saying would help their autistic dc.

A huge number of educational experts advised how children learn maths and English when the national curriculum 2014 was being devised. Their advice was ignored.

I’ve taught in two. Their curriculum is absolutely controlled by the Gove curriculum which is so stuffed it doesn’t leave room for ‘around and beyond’ for the vast majority.

Teachers were ignored too. Nobody ever considers the views of the actual experts who deliver the curriculum day in day out.

I never mentioned class or AI in my response so not sure why you made these points? I have worked in education for 40 years and my maxim in life is 'education is never wasted' However education does not necessarily mean studying for a degree.
I do think the standard of learning at most so called universities ( there are a few exceptions) is shocking. Universities are self regulated so do not have to answer to OFQUAL and there is a huge difference in the learning provision between one and another. So I stand by my saying some degrees are worthless because they have little academic rigour, have a very poor student entry system (they accept students who do not have the necessary qualifications just to get 'bums on seats' ) and generally deliver a dumbed down poor experience, at the end of which the graduate is left with £100,000 worth of debt.
It simply isn't logical to believe that the majority of people are capable of studying at a higher level. This is nothing to do with class, and totally agree attendance at university should be based only on academic merit.
My point is that the current system is based on young people getting into massive debt (which will only be wiped out if they haven't managed to pay it back after 40 years!) gaining a qualification that often doesn't help them advance in a career and they end up unemployed with a reluctance to even do any work they feel is beneath them 'because they have a degree'. Meanwhile we have a record shortage of employees in the trade and service industry while paying millions in job seekers allowance...
Therefore the ideology that everyone should get a degree is clearly not working..

Indeed! Was including teachers in my comment!

The vast majority of high achieving autistic children just need the poor behaviour by fellow pupils to be addressed. Is this really too much to ask? That they can sit in a classroom without screeching classmates lashing out, destroying children’s work, throwing things around and hitting people. It’s not too much to ask for a classroom environment where teachers teach and pupils learn, is it? 90% of the class would thrive in this environment in a was that they’re not able to thrive now.

Look at the threads about schools where poor behaviour is strictly addressed. Not popular.

Depends on what people mean by "behaviour being strictly addressed"

Secondary schools especially seem to want to display discipline by dictating that children wear blazers ALL the time, no consideration that some kids run hotter than others.
Sitting boiling in a classroom with a stiff blazer on really can't be productive for any child.

My school had a reasonable behaviour policy. That didn't stop a large group of parents kicking off massively about it. The policy was watered down and behaviour has got much worse. Well done them.