To feel like I'm lost in a haze of parenting advice

[MayWelland]

Please be gentle with me here, as I really need some guidance. Realise AIBU is not the best place for nuance, but need the traffic.

I grew up in the late-1980s and 1990s. Some of the parenting I received was fairly typical of the era - quite strict, the odd smacking. But my mum developed severe alcoholism when I was very little, and for various reasons no-one intervened, and I was routinely abused, both physically and emotionally. Small infractions would result in a beating. Being cheeky was not only not tolerated, it was actively punished, physically. I was parented through fear. It was shit, and it took me a long time to have a family of my own, because I feared repeating those mistakes.

The upshot is that I have no model. I have no example to work from. I don't know what good looks like.

I have one DS, aged 6. He is loving and affectionate 70-80% of the time, and a horror the rest. I think those ratios are fairly standard for a child of his age. But I'm getting really ground down with how he speaks to me. He is HORRIBLE to me when he gets going. Really bad attitude, lots of backchat. Not all the time, but actively refusing to do what I ask. Cheeky, sticking his tongue out, going in huffs when he doesn't get his own way. Tonight he pushed me because he didn't get what he wanted.

Please don't tell me I need to tackle it, I know that. I do not want to let him grow up thinking that it's ok to treat other people like this. But what I can't work out is HOW to tackle it.

I've tried:

• gentler tactics: shall we have a do-over? We don't speak to people like that in our house
• listening for cues eg ok does this mean he's hungry or tired or overstimulated etc and trying to address the underlying issues
• consequences eg removing toys, removing privileges, and being very clear about the link between the two, eg not arbitrary
• not sweating the small stuff
• sweating the small stuff

It is awful and I am so low and I really need some help.

I am sure you know this but consistency is the key and really following through with any threats. Don’t feel that he is your friend…. He is your son. He sounds like he needs really firm boundaries. However…. Also try to “ catch him being good” and reward / praise accordingly. Emphasise that he is a good boy and tell him the things that you are proud of.

I’m so sorry about your experiences growing up, you deserved better. I’m also with you that there’s so much parenting advice it’s hard to know where to turn. Have you read the book Good Inside by Dr Becky? That’s a good one if you haven’t. She’s active on Instagram too. There’s another book called Discipline Without Damage I can’t remember the author of but definitely worth a read.

Sorry you are feeling low OP. There isn't a quick fix, but lots of things you can introduce which will make have an impact with consistency and time. This is what I have found helpful as a teacher and parent.
Teach/explain what the correct behaviour/expecation is, you often assume they know what to do but sometimes they don't.
Praise and reward when you see this.
If they don't do something remind them of the behaviour you want, in a non verbal or lighthearted way. Then remind again more firmly before giving a time to do it or a consequence.
If it goes wrong which it will, let the situation cool down before discussing it and talking about what they should/could do differently.

Search ABA Naturally on Facebook. Found some great things here- which fitted with my ethos.

The most important thing is to be consistent. So pick your nonnegotiables. For example teeth brushing, pick up after himself, no hitting etc. Whatever is the most important to you.These are actions that have clear consequences that get given every time , after one warning. Tell him about them, remind him.Keep a stern, firm voice for moments when he’s really crossed the line. Don’t be afraid to let him see you are upset. I don’t mean wailing and crying here but if he hurts you he should know he’s done it. When calm and settled talk to him, what went wrong, what could he have done instead, howwould he feel if someone else did the same to him? Rinse and repeat. Parenting is years of doing the same thing over and over again, until it actually sticks. Definitely pick your battles. Give two choices when possible that are both acceptable to you. Distract when possible. Find out the cause, but don’t excuse. Reward and praise the behaviours you want to see and be specific i’e. “Thank you for sitting nicely “ rather than “good boy”. Explain the rules clearly, and if there is time/possible at that time explain why.

That’s the official advice. Unofficially ? I’ve been known to have a tantrum right on the floor near her IN PUBLIC!!! She never did it again though(in public).

I think the very fact you recognise that your childhood wasn’t ideal says that you have better instincts than you give yourself credit for. You’ll get better advice from others than from me here, but just wanted to say be kind to yourself.

I think the important thing is being consistent with whatever approach you pick. Children thrive from routines they expect - so knowing your responses will be the same each time is comforting isn't it to children.
I also think a lot of parents do a lot of talking with their children - which is fine but also doesn't do the straight, cross 'you are wrong and I am unhappy with it' - I do always make sure I'm somewhere on the range from unhappy to furious in terms of facial expressions and tone of voice, rather than the softly softly gentle chat that seems to be the preferred nowadays.

I have a newly turned 7 year old who sounds similar, so solidarity! Yes yes yes to praising the good behaviour. I'm sure you do already. But sometimes it can feel unnatural/we take for granted how hard they're working on being "good". Honestly the thing that has seemed to work best for us is ignoring. I mean the behaviours that you can ignore, obviously pushing you needs consequences! And if it's a prolonged behaviour (like whinging or shouting) then I let her know I'm ignoring the behaviour once and then I follow through. Also if you have the head space for it, have a look at the book "the incredible years".

In our house - back chat results in being told we do not speak to people like that and sent to a separate room until they are ready to apologise.

tantrums, screaming, shouting sulking etc. child is ask if they feel like they are making a good behaviour choice and what they should they being doing instead

hitting or not correcting behavior when told results in a punishment such as removal of a privilege like iPad, toys or not being allowed to attend a hobby.

so for example my son (10) was told to get washed and dressed to go out, he went up stairs and 25 mins later he was laying on his bed on his phone not washed or dressed, he was then giving 10 mins, he wasn’t ready, his phone was removed for the rest of the day.

my younger (5) cried because he was not allowed to do something, he rolled around his bedroom, slammed the door and refused to come out, he was spoken to about making a good choice he still kicked off, he was banned from football training that evening,

the big thing for us, is consistency and then learning a consequence for actions we don’t know find ok.

my 10 year old doesn’t lift the toilet seat, every time I go and there is wee on the sit he is made to clean the not just the seat but the whole toilet this has been going on months and it’s not getting better so the consequence has gotten worse over time

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. It is heartening to hear that I’m not on my own and that I’m not doing this wrong. But it’s also hard to extract specifics because of the varied responses eg some are much stricter than others, and maybe that’s just it, the only thing I can do is to pick a lane and be consistent.

My main concern is making sure that I’m raising a well-rounded, respectful human, and give him the tools to respectfully assert himself and challenge authority. I don’t want to raise a meek, compliant people pleaser, because I am one and I am unlearning a lot of that and it is hard.

And I know he is only little, but I don’t like the way some of this feels. I feel like I need to get hold of it early.

I suppose I just want a little parenting coach who can sit on my shoulder and whisper in my ear what to do in the live moment, like a producer on a live TV show. I want a model. And I know I can’t get it.

But Mumsnet has been a wonderful substitute so i’m very grateful

Yeah it's so hard isn't it because there really is no one right way to do it (it being a good parent!) I'm probably one of the less "strict" people who commented, and I get that you want to nip it in the bud as it were, but honestly it's so so normal at this age for them to be testing and pushing boundaries. They want a reaction from you, even if it's a negative one. So don't think that by ignoring some of those behaviours you're "letting him off the hook". If you can get help from the school I'd recommend it. We went to the school about my daughter's behaviour and they referred us to the CAMHS team that work from the school (not sure where you are or even if it's the same across schools in England where we are.) It's not something I'd have considered (or actually knew existed) if I hadn't felt at such a loss for what to do.

Sorry I meant to say that when we were put in touch with the (really amazing!) lady from CAMHS who works with the school, we did a course of I think 6 sessions with her. It was just us as parents who went and was a bit like a parenting course.

OP, you sound like a great mum. I think a parenting course would make you feel like you are and sometimes it is really good to hear that other people's children need support with their behaviour too and that we are all making it up as we go.

I think you might need to try to tackle one thing at a time so choose the behaviour you like the least first: it might be hitting. Give loads of praise wherever you can and have a response to hitting ready. Say the same thing calmly every time. You could say, 'we don't hit because it hurts.'

You might get some mileage out of talking about how he might be feeling. Sympathise with the feeling-we all feel cross sometimes and it's fine to feel like that but you still need to be gentle with your hands. Would he squeeze a stress ball/a cushion or hug a favourite teddy to help him feel okay again?

All behaviour is communication and he is communicating that all is not well when hurting you, albeit in an unacceptable way. When you think about it like that it doesn't feel so personal and it can be easier to remain calm which, whilst incredibly difficult, is ideal. Go with natural consequences if you can. We can't keep playing this game if you're hurting.

Perhaps some inducements for great behaviour might serve you better than something punitive. He could choose. It might be playing a game or doing something together if he can be really kind and gentle while you do x, y and z and then decide the next reward if he can be really kind until after lunch. Whenever he is doing anything even close to being kind, tell him how kind he is and at the end of the tell him all the really kind things he did and ask if anyone was kind to him today. Comment on the kindness of anyone you come into contact with. Good luck, OP.

It’s also important to pick a lane that you can live with and justify to yourself.It’s a lot easier to stick to it then as well.A few times I heard my mum coming out of my mouth when I was cross with DD and decided that will NOT be how DD grows up.

I worried about raising a people pleaser as my child is naturally compliant. However any unwelcome behaviour always met with a consequence, he does push back now as a teenager in an healthy manner, calls me out when I’m being unreasonable, and knows the difference between right and wrong, he’s a decent kid. So don’t worry that enforcing a boundary is going to make them a people pleaser, it makes them feel safe. Listen or offer alternatives if they aren’t happy about something, so they know you are prepared to listen to them, but your word has to be solid and not flexible. Holding your line won’t cause harm. You have recognised that what was done to you was truly awful and I am so sorry that you suffered that but holding a line with regard to your child’s behaviour isn’t the same thing. Have confidence you’re doing a good job.

Hi OP, look up My hidden chimp, it’s a great book to work through together and opens conversations about how your son is feeling and gives useful tips for managing these feelings.
Agree with others re: consistency.
Also don’t underestimate the power of your own behaviour and reinforce out loud to him why you do what you do, eg treating others with respect when you’re out and about or helping a neighbour carry in shopping etc.
Your son will mature and grow out of some behaviours. Be kind to yourself OP - you sound like you’re a great Mum and little boys can be cheeky at that age!x

Thank you all for your advice and guidance so far. I thought I would quickly come back in and say I’ve tried some of these strategies and a few have worked: for those who come to this thread after googling and want to know what worked: being calm and clear on consequences (mostly natural!) has been really helpful. Eg you understand that if you can’t speak to mummy kindly, we’re going to have do x thing until you are ready to talk nicely, and then following through with x thing (leave the park, turn the TV off, go upstairs etc)

It has worked 90% of the time. One day totally stumped me though, and I’m keen to understand what I did wrong.

We were in a craft shop (I had something to pick up for a work thing) and I let DS have a look around and said he could pick one thing to buy. There were loads of cool things and he couldn’t decide. I gave plenty of warning when we were going to leave, we'll have to leave soon so you need to decide soon, narrowing it down to 3 choices, you can get x, y or z. He was clearly overwhelmed, and couldn’t make a decision but also didn’t want to leave.

I tried everything in my arsenal. I know it’s hard to make a choice, can mummy help? I can see you are frustrated but it’s time to go. He behaved APPALLINGLY. He started crying and tantrumming like a toddler. I tried to take his hand to lead him out of the shop for some air and he started flailing about like he was being murdered, and he hit me. As soon as he realised what he’d done, that made him worse - it was an ACCIDENT I DIDNT MEAN TO - and just yelling and sobbing. The sobbing was so loud and so violent and angry, I felt quite overwhelmed myself, and when I eventually got him secured and safe in the car, I had to stand outside in the fresh air for a bit to regulate.

This sounds awful but I had this little vision of just walking and walking and walking and walking and just never coming back.

I feel like I have no model for this. My mum wouldn’t have let us get that far. We’d have been given a serious walloping (she used to say ‘if you don’t do x I’ll take your pants down and smack you where you stand’). And if we’d carried on with the hysterics, she’d have hit us to shut us up. I just have no sense of what good looks like. Reasoning and logic clearly didn’t work. Empathy didn’t work - i did understand how he must’ve felt and I can appreciate the mistake was bringing him to the shop in the first place. It was too much for him.

But I also know that a) I don’t want that behaviour to persist and b) I don’t know how much to let go.

Anyway, it’s a mixed bag, and just to say that some of it, at least, did help. I suppose I just have to keep on keeping on.

The thing is , little kids (or adults), aren’t little robots with an input and an output. I do x , y will happen every time. Sometimes they just have a bad day (or also tired, hungry, coming down with a bug , etc. or just feeling shitty). Just like adults do and nothing works. Quick removal and riding it out is all you can do. Did he apologise later for hitting you? Did you have a chat about what went wrong?

There are little things you could’ve done (I can give examples if you want), but again, nothing really works 100% of the time.

I think at that age children are trying to flex their agency and pick up things from others. My DS did.

What he responded well to was routine, consistency and consequences.

If he doesn't speak to you with respect or if he pushes/hits you he gets immediate consequences. Maybe going to his room for 15 minutes or so. Then discuss with him that we are respectful and we do not lay our lands on anyone. If it happend again he starts to lose toys/treats.

I was a flexible, soft parent but my DS always knew I wouldn't put up with disrespect.

It sounds like you’re doing really well. That’s how I would have handled a situation like that - and also would have fantasised about leaving him. My sons are now young grownups and all seem reasonable human beings and we have good relationships. I think a lot of it is modelling good behaviour, setting boundaries and showing empathy and naming feelings - all of which you seem like you’re doing. I don’t think you have to deal with each situation perfectly as you’re only human. It really sounds like you’re both going to be fine.

I second this - it's a great account

A useful thing a teacher friend said to me is that primary school teachers are taught to assume 'unconditional positive regard' for children in their care. It doesn't mean only ever being positive with them but it does mean 'even if you do something bad, I think you're a good person.' I think you can actually be explicit with that but you don't have to (and no good doing it during a behaviour moment), it is something you can just keep in your mind to remember and communicate with your actions all the time, even when you're saying 'no'. And a firm tone can still be loving can't it.

I think that most of us learn how to parent each stage as we go along and there are always going to be events like the one you describe in the craft shop because both people in the equation are human!

It's interesting though that you say 'when I eventually got him secured and safe in the car' but you don't talk about how you did that - did you pick him up and put him in, manage to persuade him, what? Because that's where a lot of the managing was. Yes, the tantrum bit was awful, better if you can prevent them but these things happen. It's the bit where you did the repairing that counts. Did you tell him off and make him feel crap? Did you hit him? My sense is you didn't and instead got what you needed to done without doing either of those things. That's a tick for you. If you did, that's human too and those moments - where the shit has happened and you need to get out of it - are what you can concentrate on.

I think you are probably doing a great job. It can be difficult to feel like you can assert boundaries when your own are a bit shot from your upbringing, but thinking about what you want from him is completely fine, and so is communicating that specifically and explicitly.

As an aside I used to treat the few minutes when everyone was strapped in the car and I shut the door like a mini spa break, even if the car's occupants were screaming their heads off inside. I don't think you're bad or even unusual for waiting to run away! You didn't did you?

Sorry to hear you had a bad moment OP but that’s what it is. Even when we manage a consistent 90% and manage to communicate well and they listen and everything goes swimmingly you will still get days where it all goes to shit. So don’t worry it happens. I’ve shut my child in the car before now and let him scream out because I knew there was literally nothing I could do that would change the situation. I just needed to ride it out.
So you did fine, you gave him as much leeway as you could. You did it right, he was having one of those days. So keep it up and just be ready to roll with the punches when these days occur and I promise there will be less of them.

Does he watch any YouTube OP? I find as a mum (and a primary teacher) that it can have a significant impact on behaviour.