AIBU to think Marrakesh was far worse than I expected?

[LondonLass37]

I'm 40. I went to Marrakesh for a week with a female friend of the same age. Both white, both blonde. Just looking for some warmth, culture, and a proper break.

What I experienced was genuinely awful.

We were harassed constantly , not just persistent sellers, but followed, hissed at, and touched. A man spat at my feet because I wouldn't give him money for directions I never asked for. Later, a drunk local chased us through the medina. We had to hide in a shop for nearly half an hour.

The medina is filthy. In the markets, animal carcasses hang next to food. Live donkeys are visibly mistreated and beaten. I'm still upset about what I saw.

The food was bland and lukewarm. My friend got food poisoning.

I wanted mint tea and beautiful tiles. Instead I felt unsafe and miserable.

So – AIBU? Or is Marrakesh genuinely as terrible as I found it?

Yep I grew up there and go back every year, and that is not Maltese culture at all! It’s a European country with most in common with Italy, plenty of Maltese girls will spend their weekends at the beach club in a bikini themselves. No culture at all of covering up.

There have been problems in recent years with large numbers of men coming over from Libya on small boats, trying to get into the EU. They are mostly in camps around the airport, and tbh do cause trouble as groups of bored unemployed young men often do. Mostly theft. The only thing I can imagine is that the PP met a group of them, rather than Maltese men?

I went when I was younger and actually pregnant - had booked the holiday months before I got pregnant.
I had v pale skin and red hair and was openly touches , stared at and my husband was asked sort of if I was for sale .!
The men kept saying they hoped I would be blessed with a boy.
what i loved - the architecture, the colours , the dessert.
what i hated- the fact that men were out in public - cafes etc .. women were not - felt anti women
the fact that a women stared at my pale skin and asked what bleach i used - pointed to her dark skin - as a bad thing - felt terrible that she seemed to think she was ‘ lower’ with her skin
the cruelty to animals- kept in cages in the market - frightened and in insense heat
the lying- tell you anything to get a sale - we hired someone as a guide on the promise he would not take us to a carpet shop- when he did and we objected, he lost his temper, shouted at us and left us in the middle of everything - we got lost

The intense hassle in the day time - constant approaches… on and on

Our son was their recently with his g f
she was appropriately covered but even so got hassled terribly to the extent that she and dc decided not to go out after dark( this was fez tho) as it was too risky.
They are seasoned travellers too.
There is sadly no way Id have gone without dh - i really hated the attitudes of the men I met there .I felt v glad to not be born their as a female.

This happened to my husband the first time he there (solo) and when he came back he was ill for about 3 months and on super strong medication to kill off whatever it was, he was bleeding rectally and lost a lot of weight, hence why when we went together I was incredibly careful with what I ate and drank, and I was absolutely fine.
The Berber guys we met in the desert were incredibly nice and spent a lot of time explaining Berber life to us, that was a real highlight. Likewise as I said before the guides in the desert were lovely, told us if we ever came back we must stay with them, and they were so kind to all of the children who were on our tour. As I said; I had a really mixed opinion as that part of the trip was fantastic and the vast majority of people we met were warm, kind and really interesting to talk to.

I visited last year and did see beautiful tiles and taste traditional mint tea. We had a guide to tour the city sights, and I think you need to be with a local to avoid being hassled. The main reason I would not return is the awful airport, it took us nearly 4 hours to get through all the security when arriving and leaving was not much better.

Nobody is saying it can never happen in a Catholic country, but it isn’t a widespread cultural norm for men in Italy, Spain or Malta to hiss and spit at a woman for being dressed immodestly. Because it is completely normal for women in Italy, Spain and Malta to wear shorts or vest tops too.

I never said it was the cultural norm!
Perhaps pursue this with the actual poster!.

This is the post I was referring to.

"Reachforthestars00 · Today 10:56
Years ago, I had a similar experience in Malta. Men hissing and spitting at me. I could not go out alone. Awful. I would never go back, or to any similarly cultural countries. Also female, white and blonde."

I'm not saying she's lying but I am extremely surprised that that was her experience. On this thread we're mostly discussing Marrakesh which does have a reputation for women being harassed for being women. Some have affirmed that they also had bad experiences, while others have said that they wouldn't even visit because of that reputation/reality.

Malta on the other hand very much does not have that kind of reputation. Also, that poster seems to relate her experience at least in part to her being white - in the 2021 census, 89% of the population of Malta were Caucasian so clearly that poster did not stand out from the crowd for being white.

If you google advice for solo female travellers in Marrakesh and in Malta you get markedly different results. Malta is routinely regarded as safe and welcoming with low crime rates. Marrakesh, not so much.

Well of course it can. Just as the same as it happens in a Protestant country or anywhere else . To call a spade a spade though in countries with strict religions where local women don’t get much casual interaction with local men it’s much worse generally

Why are you quoting me? Like I said upthread, take it up with that poster.

Or are regarded as "fair game" because they're not shrouded or look like they're owned by a man.

I'm quoting you because you've been responding to me, by quoting my posts!

Maybe Malta was actually a typo, and she meant Marrakesh! That would make sense.

So long as you understand that it's pretty much run by the Mafia.
Source: actual Maltese people I have spoken to.

We found leaving was worse than arrivals.

The riad we stayed in gave us lots of information and places to go / areas to avoid and would have booked us a guide if we had wanted. It was a very different place to where I’ve been before - a very different culture but it was good. Riad was fantastic, food very good but the scooters inside the souks wasn’t fun and neither was some of the outright animal cruelty.

Yes, there is that.

But from what I know, hissing and spitting at women isn't their style.

Who knows. This is making my head spin now. I've no idea.

I agree regarding the Berber guys in the desert area any I met seemed decent . A lot of the older men I had interactions with in the cities such as in Fez were also very respectful and pleasant . But a lot of younger men walking around in the cities not so much .

My child has been to both resorts and to Marrakesh - she is at the age she just loves being with us so she really loved the Marrakesh trip. I don’t think she necessarily preferred our resort holidays.

We went Agidir 2yrs ago, it was fabulous. There was a lot of stray dogs but they were very well looked after, fed and watered every day by the hotels along the beach. We are going back again this year.

What exactly do you mean by similarly cultural countries? Malta is 90% catholic, the ethic make-up of the country is entirely different to North Africa.

You can try and be as right on as you like and yes there are creeps in every country but in North Africa it’s endemic. I got minimal hassle travelling in Europe, Israel, Central America and South America as a young woman but Cairo was hell on earth. We ended up confined to our hotel room couldn’t even use the pool as the waiters came out and leered at us.

Myself and a friend were spiked by guys from the SM in Malta.

I've been to Marrakesh three times on my own and had largely positive experiences (although there was certainly no shortage of annoying men around).

I found the whole place exciting, colourful and vibrant, so was willing to put up with some low-level harassment, irritating though it was. I don't understand how you can have found all the food you tried over the course of an entire week to be bland and lukewarm, unless you were there on a package and ate solely in your hotel. Everything I ate was either very good or totally acceptable (and very cheap). There are some more modern style restaurants as well, like Cafe Clock.

I don't suppose you will return, but if you did I would recommend staying in a riad for a more traditional/authentic experience and exploring all the interesting museums etc., plus a trip to the Atlas mountains (you can book a taxi for the day for a very reasonable rate).

As the pp upthread, i also wouldn't go to any muslim dominated country, especially not as a lone female. It took me a few trips to various cities to learn this lesson..

I met a couple of very articulate and polite (youngish) men who worked in the riad and had a long discussion with one of them about the way Moroccan men treat western women. It was quite enlightening.

....are you going to enlighten us?