AIBU to question entering my dyslexic daughter for the Kent 11+?

[Pigwig22]

My daughter is in year 4 and we are trying to decide whether to go for the Kent 11+. I don’t think we should as I’m concerned she’s unlikely to pass, my husband thinks put her in for the experience and see what happens.

She has dyslexia and I don’t feel she does that well at school, but I guess I have nothing to compare her to.

She has come on massively this year in maths, getting 90-100% in arithmetic tests but only about 50-60% in maths reasoning meaning she’s expected overall in maths. This is an improvement to previous years.

In English her compression scores are very good (80-90%), but grammar is just ok (50-60%) and spelling is where her dyslexia really shows 0-3 out of 20 is standard. She would be expected in reading and WTE in SPAG because of the spelling.

We have done some little bits of non verbal reasoning at home and this is her dyslexic super power! I’ve never really known her her one wrong and she sees it almost instantly.

Verbal reasoning is ok if she reads it and close
to full marks if I read it to her as due to the dyslexia she misreads some words. Could she have a reader for this in the 11+?

I think we’d have to work her hard to achieve a pass with the above (is it even possible with this starting point and lots of tutoring??). She already has a dyslexia tutor for the spelling so I guess we would be dropping that and focusing on the 11+ which feels counterproductive long term in what will actually benefit her.

But my biggest concern is if grammar would really be right for her anyway. She can get a bit sad about bad exam marks (ie the spelling test low scores) and they don’t even matter yet. I also feel if (and to me a big if) she scrapped in then she’d be bottom of the class and it would destroy her confidence.

But my husband says stick her in the test without tutoring and see what happens, it all builds resilience he feels.

I think it worth saying we don’t like any of the comprehensive schools near us so our alternative would be private school (I am also nervous about her passing those tests, our top choice would be Radnor Sevenoaks so I think not super selective?). Because of this my husband also argues go for it as we could save on the fees if she did get in.

So AIBU to think it’s a waste of time and potentially detrimental to put her in for it with the above considerations? Or is it all character building anyway?

Be careful of your husband projecting- she isn’t him. And if she’s trying her best she obviously cares and could be really dented by “failing” (particularly as it seems your husband places importance on the process).

My DDs ed pysc report revealed she is highly intelligent (according to the tools/tests employed in her assessment) but her poor spelling still makes her feel ‘less than’. Choose a path that will build her up, help her find her “thing” and will give her the best hope for getting out unscathed from an educational system that wasn’t built with her in mind.

Thank you, really appreciate your post. My daughter has very high levels of emotional intelligence too and her talents are very much not what primary focuses on (PE, art, etc). I believe she will do well at life, but trying to work out how to give her the best start is so hard.

I was also very academic at school and went to a very pusy secondary school - anything less than an A was not considered good enough. It's been a long journey for me in accepting her journey will be different. I do believe I know what the right choice is for her, and so does my husband, I guess he is just faintly hoping we might not have to pay for it!

We went around all the local state schools, plus several we would have to move for. We found one we liked and I would move for, but my husband didn't want to move to that area. We found a private that just feels right for her on so many levels - great dyslexia support, the SENCO was briliant and the sports and art facilities are great (which would be very important to my DD).

I think we both know that is the school for her, but she still has to pass a test... won't be as hard as the 11+ but I guess my husband thinks if we need to prep her for that stick her in for the 11+ too. But it will be harder!!

People say this, but I am not convinced it always works like that... The state system is set up to write you off quite young. If a child improves from their starting point then that's a success for the school. So if you come out of SATs projected to get C equivalents at GCSE the school has no motivatoin to support you to do better.

Sounds like you’ve found the perfect school for your DD. I’d focus on practising for that exam- so she’s used to the style of questions etc. She will be working so hard to keep up at school, you risk her “failing” both if you split her focus outside of school and if the 11 plus is first she could develop a lot of anxiety if she finds it difficult/stressful making it less likely that she’d perform well at the second test.

I really relate to needing to adjust expectations and approach. I got a lot wrong initially with respect to these things and put too much pressure on DD. It feels like you’re fully there with knowing what’s best/realistic and your DH is possibly not yet. Even if she passed the 11+, would the school be right for her based on what else you see/know of it?

Oh I've clearly not been fair in explaing my husband! ha! He is very laid back when it comes to education and just wants them to do their best and find what is interesting to them / what they like - whether that's academics or not. I think the reason he would put her in for the 11+ is because he doesn't place any importance on the process so doesn't see why you wouldn't 'have a go'.

I haven't read all the thread so don't know if this was asked already , I have no experience with the 11 + just the irish state exams, but would there be reasonable accommodations made for her dyslexia? Like more time alloted or a waiver for spelling and grammar? I think if this was the case I'd maybe try but I wouldn't want her confidence taking a thrashing . What does your dd want to do ?

I think you're totally right. The private school is my husband's top choice too so if I point out to him that our DD isn't the type to just rock up and not worry about how it goes I'm sure he'll come round to not putting her in for it too!

I'm not sure what she wants to do tbh as she's still 18 months away and I didn't want to pressure her to feel she had to make a decision now. She could get extra time, but spelling can't be discounted. I am unclear if other adjustments such as a reader would be possible.

I'd look into this before deciding, but the private school sounds like a good choice , it's so hard making decisions that effect their future , there's always the what ifs .

We had almost exactly the same with DD who was diagnosed with dyslexia end of year 4 after years of battling the school to acknowledge there was an issue (no, not being able to read in year 4 ISN'T normal as it turns out) and after completely ruining her confidence (no, bursting into tears in lessons when presented with work on a regular basis is not just pre-teen girl emotions).

She did take the test and was tutored (not "to death", whatever that means, but just to have an idea of what the questions were like, what the test format was and how to approach them. It's an aside but I think you are massively setting a child up for failure if you don't do this - whether it's from a tutor or just at home. there's concepts on the test they don't even learn till year 6 and I am not sure you know how approach algebra automatically just by being bright if you've never been introduced to the concept). She passed maths and reasoning, but not English where she was about 20 points down, even with extra time. This wasn't surprising to us as her dyslexia centres around comprehension and the text exercise was virtually impossible for her to do. We were advised that we might be successful on appeal (lots of circumstances surrounding her diagnosis and subsequent support from her primary school which absolutely shattered her confidence) but we decided not to and she's now doing really well at a comprehensive. She didn't mind sitting the test (in fact we left it up to her whether to sit it in the end), and wasn't disappointed she didn't pass, but we did a lot of work to ensure it definitely wasn't seen as anything negative.

We are really happy with our decision - it's definitely right for DD. There's a lot of pressure to keep up at grammar school, especially if you are already starting on a back foot, and while some kids thrive on that DD would have crumbled as her confidence was already fragile and she had developed anxiety as a result of her primary experience. Also, despite what grammar parents and alumni will tell you, grammar school isn't the be all and end all of life, especially if you have a private school option you are happy with.

I think the dyslexia is something of a red herring as if she passes the Kent Test she would certainly be bright enough to hold her own at the school. Setting aside the few super selectives which offer on score, most grammar schools in Kent are taking the top 20-30% so not as competitive as some other grammar schools in other counties which other posters might be thinking of. The key thing is for her primary school to establish her usual ways of working - extra time, scribe, whatever - so that will also be used in the Kent Test exam. Having dyslexia does not mean your DD should not in principle enter the exam. She deserves the chance but keep it all in perspective and tell her it’s just one school you are considering and an exam is needed to get the place. I imagine she will also need to sit an exam to get a place at the private school (I think they use these to give an impression you have “won” the place to make it more attractive!). And you don’t even need to tell her if she does fail - just say that you’ve decided the other school would suit her better!

Ask your husband if it would be character building for him to have to take a series of exams at work -which would have a huge impact on his whole future going forward- that he was unprepared for and likely to fail. He would do this alongside his colleagues who were likely to pass. The exams would be the talk of the workplace for months leading up to them and the results would be known to all his colleagues and their families afterwards. (I know the Kent Test results aren’t literally public knowledge, but my experience of having 2 children go through the Kent school system is that they might as well be.) Would he be as gung-ho about it as he appears to be regarding your DD?

So, OP, as you are saying you live in SE London, so I am guessing Bromley. If that is the case, I wouldn’t bother sitting the 11+, dyslexic or not, because the Bromley comprehensives are good. I have a very very academic DC who got 4xAstar at A-Level in a Bromley comprehensive. The 6th form in particular was fantastic because it was very small and so the classes were tiny - smallest was 2, biggest was 10.

Some of the Bromley schools are brilliant, but unforuntately we live right between Newstead and St Olaves...

We are possibly out of catchment for Darrick, this year for the first time we would have got in, but I understand they will be dropping a form soon. And while I get it is a good enough school and some kids do well there, when my husband, daughter and I went round Darrick we really didn't like it and couldn't see her there.

So we don't live in a part of Bromely that is in the catchment for the good schools.

I do agree with this as well - there's A LOT of peer to peer (and parent to parent) talk about this. We had decided not to tell DD her results as we didn't want her worrying, but it was virtually impossible as everyone was talking.

Did I mention I hate 11+/ grammar school systems? Mainly because of the above.

I HATE it too! My husband detests it despite thinking she should give it a go. He thinks this part of the country is insane but moving isn't really an option sadly.

I do also love @MimiGC's brutal take! Although I do wonder if my DD will equally feel left out if she doesn't take it. I know nearly all of the children in my daughter's school do sit either / all of the Kent, Bexley or Newstead / St Olaves tests so will she feel we have no faith in her / she is the bottom of the class for not taking it? In my friend's DD's yr 6 class there were only 6 children in the class the week before the test as all the others were at home cramming!

why don't you ask her what she wants to do? If she wants to do it, and you agree the result doesn't matter as you've already got a school then fine. It's test/ exam practice and I think does probably help for SATS.

But if you do let her do it, at least get some practice in at home so she's familiar with them. Have you ever looked at one? I think if I were to sit one cold I would fail it completely. And I've always been really academic.

I guess my husband thinks if we need to prep her for that stick her in for the 11+ too. But it will be harder!!

See I am not sure this is correct either. From friends’ experiences in London I think they asked tutors to prep their kids for the exams for the 3/4 private schools they were targeting and not the 11+. Of course there would be some crossover but if you know you want X private school, the better thing is to find a tutor with experience of getting kids in to that particular school and not just a generic 11+ tutor.

Plus at a decent primary in London 11+ results day will be brutal if there are a few entering. My kids’ school had people comparing results. So whilst your DH’s attitude might be relaxed it could be quite tricky for your DD if she doesn’t do as well as the child who has been tutored for the 11+ for 2 years and it could really dent her confidence at quite an impressionable age.

Wondering if she'd feel left out not doing it.... But I guess she can just explain she is sitting a test for a different school

My DCs went to Charles Darwin - admittedly a few years ago. It certainly was and probably still is a decent school. My youngest is 21. Many of the BR6 primaries are feeder schools for CDS - this includes Warren, GSG, Tubenden. (See here for full list: www.cdarwin.com/docs/imported/Charles-Darwin-School-Admissions/Admissions%20Policy%202026-27.pdf) so your DC would get a place if they are at a feeder school. Commuting to Dartford or Sevenoaks, Tonbridge or even Tunbridge Wells every day will be exhausting for your child and expensive for you. If, like my DCs, they want to do after school clubs and revision classes in y11 (they were every day except Friday), it makes the logistics so much harder. For you, it will be expensive getting your DC to Kent every day but free for anywhere in Bromley (or another London borough - there are also grammars in Bexley).

I was going send the DC who got the stratospheric A Levels to a grammar but they actually didn’t pass the 11+!!! It worked out for the best in the end. I often thought about the fact that my DCs were already doing their homework at 4pm, having got home and had a drink and chat. If they’d gone to a Kent school, they still would have been still on public transport at that time.

One of the Bexley grammars will say that they had a child who needed so much support they never entered the mainstream classroom in 7 years but got accepted to Oxbridge. Some Grammars have great provision for kids with SEN. I'd not enter her without tuition though.

I’ve not read the full thread and don’t have direct experience of the Kent system (family live there, we do not).
I just wanted to say that my daughter was struggling in Y4. She was diagnosed with dyslexia at the end of Y4. Now in Y5 she is doing really well. We got her a brilliant tutor who we instructed to ‘improve her confidence’. I couldn’t care less about marks but this tutor has found what works for her.
Maybe veer away from the Kent test but keep some confidence boosting tuition?

Yes, to be fair we haven't looked at Charles Darwin yet and she would get in. But I have heard really negative things in terms of dyslexia support so I would need to look at that.

You mentioned your child with the great results is very academic (not sure if they are also dyslexic?) so quite possibly they would do well anywhere.

I don't think the same is true for my child who isn't particulalry academic, and does have dyslexia so needs a bit more support to reach her potential.

At the moment, we would be thinking Kent 11+ for Weald of Kent Sevenoaks or Radnor House in Sevenoaks so I guess the commute is the same either way - but I do take your point about less time for homework.

I've factored in paying for the bus and private school for 7 years so paying for transport to grammer isn't really something that will influence my decision. We intend to move to Sevenoaks anyway once my youngest is in year 5 / 6.

Thanks - did you get a dyslexia tutor or a general / 11+ tutor? We have a dyslexia tutor who is brilliant and I definitely think it is the right thing for her long-term, but it's not teaching my daughter any skills for passing exams for private or grammar school...