Are other full-time working families finding there is nothing left?

[fatface001]

Alarm went off at 5:30 this morning, then an hour stood on a packed train into London for the commute. We are a normal family: one child and two full-time jobs. I’ve always enjoyed working and have always worked hard, and I don’t mind that at all — but I do expect that full-time work should still mean there’s something left at the end of the month for a normal life.

But that really doesn’t feel like the case anymore.

There’s nothing left at the end of the month. Everything has been stripped back, all non-essentials have gone, and even basic things around the house are being put off or done ourselves because there isn’t spare money for trades. It’s just constant cutting back.

What’s hard is that we’re both working really long hours and doing everything we’re “supposed” to do, but it still feels like we’re going backwards rather than getting ahead.

When I hear talk about “those with the broadest shoulders” contributing more, I honestly don’t recognise it anymore in real life. It doesn’t feel like anyone in our position has anything left to give — it feels like the pressure is entirely on ordinary working households just to stand still.

I’m not looking for luxuries — just the sense that working still gives you a bit of breathing room. Right now it doesn’t feel like that at all.

Is anyone else feeling the same?

Arh ok I thought you paid a lot, a very lot, of tax because of your concern about what percentage of your tax was spent on benefits.
You can lower the amount you contribute to the benefits bill by lowering your tax return.

Yes 57 is ambitious, would help if we all knew how long the pension account needs to last! 62 is much more achievable.

@Crikeyalmighty yes the Tories froze the tax bands but for whatever reason many people have only started to notice the impact in the last year or so.

Perhaps because mortgages and bills have increased. It’s a bit like so many didn’t notice wage stagnation for years and years because low interest rates made things cheap.

It’s like you can’t even have a normal chat without someone dragging in their jealousy, hate, or just straight-up negativity.

To keep it simple and short in analyzing human behavior:
People who feel broke often harbor strong resentment toward those with more, yet still hope the middle class and wealthy might bail them out. The middle class? They’re getting squeezed so much they fear they might vanish altogether. And the wealthy? They’re holding on to their money tightly, knowing it could all disappear in an instant.

My husband and I are in our mid-to-late 40s and have two children. We both come from large families on all sides, with a mix of social classes, though none are poor. We're doing pretty well for ourselves, but since we tend to overthink worst-case scenarios, we've always kept ourselves prepared for when things go sideways. We're not big fans of debt, but we also believe in actually enjoying life, what's the point of money if you're not having fun with it? We figured out how to live well without overspending, cutting out waste, saving where we could, and always looking for ways to earn more and grow our wealth. I went to a pretty average state school, and by 18, I was already googling the highest-paying careers that suited me and I just went for it. I wanted money, I wanted to be wealthy, and I chased that dream hard. My husband had the same mindset. Over the last twenty years, we've done our homework on the best ways to invest while keeping our eyes open. And since we pay a decent chunk for our internet, we make sure we're getting every penny's worth out of it.

Im 38 and husband is 43. We have a combined household gross income of £82k. Even on our heaviest spending months we have circa £400 left in the bank by the next payday. I buy what I want and while I don't have particularly expensive tastes, I spend however much I feel like and don't give it a second thought. I have a brand new car and live in a 3 bed semi with a good sized garden, and I've got kids. I have savings of circa £40k and am on track to have the mortgage paid off at 45.

Here might be the big difference. I live in a northern town. I live 5 minutes from work. My house was pretty affordable since it's the north and a fairly working class area. We've both got good jobs and the transport links to Liverpool and Manchester are great. If I wanted to earn more and commute it wouldn't be a problem, but I love being 5 minutes from my job.

I genuinely think that's the difference here. The north/south divide.

Access to free nursery places, a tax free allowance and tax bands to be adjusted to eliminate fiscal drag is what is needed..not apologies

Friends children living in London top end of primary now still need wrap around care in the school holidays which is expensive. Three bed semi outside London. Dad commutes by train. Mum has an old car. Their income sounds really good on paper but it vanishes fast. They barely have the heating on, shop economically it's relentless. Their holidays are with parents who live in Devon which the children love.

The fact that couples are choosing not to have children makes sense these days.

@CoralOP yes I posted earlier about expectations- I’ve got friends in midlands and ‘up north’ with low rents and mortgages , several decent cars and doing 3 or 4 full week or 2 week sunny holidays, nice home and bang on as if they are at poverty level and what’s Farage going to do to make their life better.their life looks pretty decent to me and they are on average earnings- I’m not sure what they are expecting. I do think some people have insane expectations

A lot is to do with housing costs and if & when you got on the ladder.

I think it all depends on your mortgage. Bought our house a doer upper 15 years ago and our mortgage cost is cheap. I work part time tto so crap wage, partner full time earns a decent wage but probably not by mumsnet standards!! So between us probably bang on average duel income (70k) . We can still afford to go out for meals and take kids for days out, the odd holiday. I use discount codes for anything I can. We don't have car finance or anything. I can only assume it's people's large mortgages /rents as I know if I bought a house now as a first time buyer it would be very different.

It’s made worse when I know people claiming PIP for pretend ADHD and migraines, and she not the only one

And here I would agree - as someone originally from a midlands mining town and living ‘down south’ - it’s such a huge divide , especially in the most sought after areas and not just London , that it’s a dramatic difference - people say well just move, but lots don’t want to, work in careers/industrys that still have large elements of London centrism, have family and friends and networks etc etc - we all need homes but not everyone is prepared to go where they know no one or not have any networks/support - even if you work from home it’s not nice beyond a certain age to live in such isolation and not even have school /work chums to make friends with

people say well just move, but lots don’t want to, work in careers/industrys that still have large elements of London centrism, have family and friends and networks etc etc - we all need homes but not everyone is prepared to go where they know no one or not have any networks/support - even if you work from home it’s not nice beyond a certain age to live in such isolation and not even have school /work chums to make friends with

Commuting is also really expensive now

Couldn’t agree more Katy - I’ve banged on on here before about someone I know getting very nice maintenance indeed , doing no more than about 20 hours a week work ( and no she doesn’t get hassled)and getting next to full UC including virtually all her rent covered too - she’s getting far more net a month than many a full time single mum nurse with £2700 net plus maybe £10k in bank , no maintainance and paying a small mortgage.

If at first you don’t succeed, etc..

Yep - my son realised this while ago , flat just outside zones and around 45 mins travel was £400 a month less rent , but £400 a month more in travel costs, so pointless moving - and earnings being London based were around £250 more net a month being based in London and far more choice in his career of roles if anything goes tits up

my concern was more that 44% of the tax we pay collectively (I pay in the example as I am using my figures but others will be the same - you can see on HMRC) goes to pay for benefits/pensions/interest debt.

That is a huge chunk of public finances going to keep fund those who can't (or won't) work, disabled, pensions & servicing debt.

I was simply shocked at 44% - I don't think as a country, this % can be sustainable.

I was raised on benefits & I'm very thankful for them - never claimed myself as I've always been willing & able to work. that could change at any time as others are pointing out.

I think you’ve nailed it. How much did you pay for your house?

£145k in 2014. We did it up and worth about £210k which is still cheap. 3 double bedrooms, 2 reception rooms, big kitchen, front and back gardens, driveway. We also got a 5 year fixed term mortgage when the rates were 1.4%. I feel very lucky but not everyone would want what I have. It's an ex council house, on a street with some people on benefits and the rest of us working class backgrounds. It isn't a posh area but I didn't grow up posh so I feel at home and very happy here. I could buy a house in a posher street and end up with no money because of a crippling mortgage. It's all give and take, no matter where you live.

Exactly the same here OP. The soundbites are BS. Complete BS. Cameron told us we ‘are all in it together’, May claimed ‘there’s no magic money tree’ - only for a forest to be found during covid and Keir now telling us the broadest shoulders are bearing the most. Not a single one GAF about ordinary working households.

There’s no help for working families who are often cash poor. Reality is economy has never recovered since 2008 for ordinary folk. If wages had risen as they should have average earner according to resolution foundation be £14k better off today.

I for one greatly resent those who have a house full paid off but are deemed to still be ‘the most vulnerable’ and get to claim full means tested benefits. Renters knocking their pan in can only have £16k (I wish) in savings though if they are (and often aren’t) to be entitled to help.

Unpopular perhaps but in my view it is not at all right someone can keep capital in housing sometimes worth £1m or more. That can’t continue. Either downsize or put a charge on the property as quid pro quo. How can taking from a poor working household be right in current climate when said home owner is richer than most renters can ever dream to be? What about the inheritance for our kids?

Hard work no longer pays and the social contract is completely broken. Unless you are lucky enough to have inheritance or head start most can forget getting far and more month than pay only going to get worse. We need a national strike as it’s clear without collective action we can’t rely on even a labour government to look after the suffering many.

We are long passed the point of just cut back. What to do when there is nothing left to cut!?

It’s true but it’s only a matter of time before everyone gets sucked into the same issues I think.
While we have no complaints about our lifestyle we did recently realise that with promotions & payrises our income has gone up by over 50% in the past 5 years yet we don’t really have a lot more disposable income as mortgage, food, transport & energy costs have gone up so significantly in the same period. The headline inflation rate feels lower than the real increases (mortgage rates going up in particular really eats up a lot of money)
It doesn’t surprise me at all people across the board are feeling less well off when we’ve had above average pay rises and don’t feel much better off.

But data could be skewed because if there is a top up of that much, their housing element must be super high, meaning they live somewhere with very high rents like down south. Up north rents are much lower so therefore the amount of top up is lower.

I can only speak as I find. And id rather go off someone's actual experience rather than stats on the Internet, as weve found before stats and information from the government are not always reliable. And a bit mad to say that you don't want a random stranger on the Internets experience when were on an Internet forum 😂

I just find it wholly abhorrent that people who have never needed to rely on a benefit look down on those who do and berate them or think they have it better. The absolute majority of people on benefits did not set out to be on them. There are there through some horrible misfortune that can occur to anyone in life.

Unpopular perhaps but in my view it is not at all right someone can keep capital in housing sometimes worth £1m or more. That can’t continue. Either downsize or put a charge on the property as quid pro quo. How can taking from a poor working household be right in current climate when said home owner is richer than most renters can ever dream to be? What about the inheritance for our kids?

I agree this isn’t right but it’s a function of our distorted housing market.

@RedRock41

Because 'down size ' is so easy isn't it. Like can't you retrain, or get more shifts, or a promotion
I'm 60, have incurable cancer, lost my income overnight in February. Do not qualify for benefits.

Thank God I have paid my mortgage off or I'd be looking at losing everything.
There is no where for me to downsize to. I can't move 'to a cheaper area' because this is where my life is and I need the support of my friends now.
These phrases are all too easy to say until you are faced with the reality if doing it

I have always thought more inheritance tax, paid by many, many more estates feels like a good answer to raise significant funds but it seems to be generally hated as a concept.

I find it abhorrent than people who have never financially contributed, are willing to drain every last penny out of those families who do. You need to understand this can not continue.