AIBU to think the SATs / 11+ pressure is nuts?

[MizzyDazzy]

My daughter is in year 4 and I think her school is quite high pressure. They have always done constant test papers and have now started converting the scores to standardised SATs marks and telling the kids where they are and if they are working towards, expected or greater depth.

This is clearly quite openly talked about in the classroom and my daughter is very aware of where she and everyone else is.

This has caused her to come home in tears the last few weeks over her scores. She’s dyslexic and hasn’t always found academics easy.

She got a solid expected in maths and just missed out in spag (got it for grammar but was dragged down by her spelling, which is her major issue with the dyslexia). They annoyingly didn’t tell the kids their English comp scores but hers was greater
depth.

I think she’s doing really well, particularly when I know it hasn’t been easy for her, but she is in floods of tears as she has some of the lowest scores in the class. I do believe she is one of the bottom as most of the children will go on to get greater depth in their SATs and most are already being tutored quite heavily for 11+. She is also in a number of intervention groups.

AIBU to think she’s done well and her school is just bonkers? Or are most kids across the country doing much better than this? For context her scores are, 107 maths, 98 spag (105 on grammar) and 132 English comp.

The parents WhatsApp’s is going crazy over the scores and breakout groups for 11+ “support” depending on what schools you will be targeting and this definitely spills into the classroom. She sat next to a girl who was saying she must have one of the worst scores as she had dropped 4 marks on a paper!

We don’t actually live in an 11+ area but boarder 2 with 2 of the top grammars in our doorstep that don’t have catchments. So people need almost full marks to get in to these schools and I think they’ve lost all sense of perspective.

I just find this all absolutely ridiculous and hate that I feel trapped in it. My daughter isn’t going to take the 11+ and SATs really are not that important. I’m debating taking my daughter out of the school because the pressure is just so stupid and clearly going to get worse. But she is very happy with her friends there and generally at school so moving her feels risky in a way. Plus I assume all schools in this area will be the same…

So if we leave her in the school how can I support her and help her feel confident / proud of what she has achieved? And stop this constant comparison?

OP, I think you live round the corner from me. I also live on the door step of two grammar schools in a non-grammar area, with 2 grammar areas nearby.

I agree with PPs who say the school culture is the issue. Knowing what people are like in this area, it doesn’t surprise me. You might find other local schools are similar, but perhaps not.

The comprehensives here are very good. My DCs went to one and did really well - even the DC with undiagnosed dyslexia. I’m concerned that your DD is anxious already. Since you already know she is neurodivergent. Have you considered any other possible neurodivergent diagnoses? My DC with dyslexia was diagnosed with ADHD at age 20, shortly after starting university. They were fine in primary but the anxiety started at age 12 and I had no idea of the cause until age 19, so secondary school was a
struggle - they did well academically but not as well as they should have done.

They started practicing for the SATs in my daughter’s primary school in year 5, I thought that was bad enough. The pressure was immense and that was around the time my daughter first started suffering from stress related stomach pains and vomiting. When I raised this with the teacher she was shocked and said “but she doesn’t need to worry about the SATs, she’s one of my highest performing children in the class”. That shouldn’t matter. No child should be under that much stress, ever. Let alone for that.

My DC started 11+ prep in year 4. Always outside of school if you go to a state primary

Can't remember the school stressing about SATS in year 4. It only started in year 6 and I can't remember any stress about. 11+ was hard enough so my DC found SATS not too bad. Also the SATS stuff started in year 6.

@MizzyDazzy is your DD aiming for the 11+?

And we wonder why so many children/teens/young people struggle with anxiety & poor mental health!

It used to be that pupils only really felt this kind of pressure on the lead up to public exams & then only really in the last year/six months before the final exams.

Now we have children feeling stress and anxiety early on around sats tests which are of no real use to them & are only there to grade the school.

The stress around GCSEs starts way too early as well with children constantly tested & turned into exam-passing automatons. I couldn't believe how often my own kids sat "mocks"!

Something really has to give here. At the moment it seems the children are the ones "giving" as they struggle with stress & anxiety, whereas it is the exam-heavy system that needs to change.
It really is a depressing picture.

No, I don’t think grammar would be right for her. We are probably going to go private so she will need to sit tests for those schools but my understanding from the schools we are targeting is that this is not as hard as the 11+.

Orpington?

This is bonkers. My DD actually got top grades in her GCSE’s but she certainly wasn’t excelling in year 4. In some of the primary year she was getting extra help for some things. She didn’t want to sit a a test for grammar and I didn’t enter her as she was happy to go to state school (admittedly, an ofsted outstanding secondary).

I think pressure on kids is counter productive and not on day we are parents put any pressure on her. I’d seriously be looking for another school as publicising year 6 marks on the way would be the final straw for me.

Yes my DC1 was not even entered for the higher level maths SATS paper in year 6 and is now working as a scientist. They also did not pass the 11+ but got 4 Astars (inc maths) at A-level and a 1st at uni. Normal state schools.

I agree with you about putting pressure on children is counterproductive.

My DC2 was all over the place in Y4/5 but got top grades in GCSEs and A levels and is now studying at Oxbridge Uni.
Had she had pressure put on her in Y4 she would probably have crumbled under it. Luckily her primary was quite laid back & put minimal pressure on until y6 which she then found boring.
She came into her own in her own time at secondary school. It was less pressurised there than some but still too much testing & constant mocks. By then she was older, slightly less chaotic & could take it in her stride.
Pressure in Y4 or 5 when they should still be enjoying learning & having fun is counter productive in my eyes & could result in early burn out.

Mine attended a similar primary - daily/weekly/monthly tests in Y4, results published on a class notice board, RAG status, sets, who's moving up/down, all of that. It produced very confident children in the high attainment sets, but it also produced children who had sat in the bottom sets that had mentally checked out of education even if their objective performance against the national average was strong.

Sounds awful

Yes, and damaging. There were many reasons why the 11+ was phased out - one of which was that it labelled children as academic failures before they had fully developed. An 8+, which this Y4 high-pressure, hyper-transparent competitive testing approach essentially simulates, does this labelling at an even earlier age.

It seems to be all the rage for primaries that feed into grammars and independent schools.

I completely agree the 11+ is a terrible idea - especially as we are currently living it - my year 5 daughter has her heart set on one of the girls grammars after visiting several schools (the sports and drama facilities were far superior to all the comps), so we are supporting her to try to get in, but I think the whole concept is really stressful and divisive - we didn't grow up in Bucks, moved out of London during covid when this DD was 4, not really fully understanding it as secondary was 6 years away at that point.

But her primary, as a grammar feeder is in no way pushy, if anything I think they could stretch the brightest a bit more than they do. They have a strong focus on producing well rounded pupils, who are kind, inclusive, have the confidence to give anything a go. Test results are shared with parents and pupils at parents evening, children aren't even told them in class so no one knows anyone else's unless they chose to share their own results

Your observation about the resource imbalance is spot on, and a key reason that grammar schools do so well - they start with the top 25%, then nurture and stretch those gifted children with superior resources and facilities, depriving the neighbouring comps in the process. Smashing for those that pass the 11+, often more challenging for those who don't.

It must have been quite a shock when you realised that you were in the lion's den - Bucks really is ground zero of the 11+ in the South East!

My year 6 daughter has a remarkable memory and views exams as quizzes so tends to fly through tests and got a place at her first choice. But it does get to her at times as her classroom is in a perpetual state of competition and you can't be ace at everything all the time.

I would say that your primary has a far better balance. Something similar would be my choice if I could have my time again.

The entirety of the pupil progress that has to be reported is based on a mix of these age-related tests and observations taken from their class work.

It is normal. Whilst the idea is sound - that being that any gaps can be spotted and instantly targeted - it is very formulaic and doesn't take into consideration the fact that children don't learn in a linear fashion, particularly across multiple disciplines.

Schools and teachers are judged on their SATs scores, everyone surely knows this! I can’t believe it’s a surprise to anyone. That’s why it’s a shitty, stressful job.

I think most people do know this, but is it right to put children through so much pressure over it?

Yes it’s mental but our school didn’t start until y6 I wouldn’t want that pressure from y4

Yes but this doesn't justify the nonsense this school is putting children through!
Not all schools do this.

My son was in the first year for SATs. When they were introduced, parents were told there was no pass/fail, the tests would be part of a normal lesson, no big deal. They lied. My grandchildren are just finishing Year 11 & Year 6. Years 10 & 11 seem to be nothing but mock exams. Years 5 & 6 are almost as bad. I taught in FE. Our intake in 97 (the first year to have had 6 years of SATs) seemed to be much worse at studying than previous years, they’d been spoon fed all the way through school & didn’t know how to think for themselves. I’m convinced that the constant high pressure & emphasis on ‘teaching to the test’ have harmed education. The 11 year old was tested for Autism at the same time as mock SATs. “I got 40:40 for autism and 19:20 for maths”. She saw them as all the same hoops to jump through.
Maybe find ‘famous people who have dyslexia’ for her to see it isn’t the end of the world.