How many kids have left the school? (VAT)

[limeandwater]

It's been long enough now that I think we can make a reasonable conclusion on how bad it has hurt school.

To be honest at our school I only know 3 pupils that have left because of the VAT so not as bad as many feared.

Still heartbreaking for the kids though.

@randomchap - did the parents of those bullied children not call the police and have them arrested? Did the private school expel those kids immediately?

Interesting interview with a mother whose child was involved in belt lashings:

www.facebook.com/share/v/17DjxdgiWD/

He's left now.. he was fine and any issues were dealt with in a way that wasn't possible at his previous school due to its size and inflexibility. No school is perfect, Im not saying privates are, but there are so many kids like my son, who would be fine in mainstream state if they were half the size, double staffed and able to be flexible, rather than a 'one size fits no-one' approach. That's where this policy feels spiteful and mean spirited..and again, thus far I haven't seen a single tangible benefit from it to state sectors.

@TartanCurtain - it does not really surprise me. I went to a private school for 2 years in Sixth Form because my parents were abroad. All sorts happened, I had the best time, but there was lots of dodgy stuff going on and glossed over.
Hopefully parents of privately educated children these days are not scared to call the police, child protection and sue the schools as well, if they fail to safeguard. It is a contract after all and should work both ways. State education you have recourse to the regulations in place after exhausting the complaints policy.

One kid expelled, the other not.

School/parents did not call the police.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/168811535#/?channel=COM_BUY

Not sure something like this would be suitable for social housing

@randomchap - I think all parents need to always be happy to remove their kids from whatever school, however prestigious, whether state or private. I wonder whether parents failing to call the police in some prestigious private school are scared of being blacklisted by the private school network of schools somehow, should they need to remove their child. A bit like when your employer treats you badly and you know you have a case of unfair dismissal but you are too scared to kick up a fuss early on in your career, in case it becomes difficult to get another job in your industry type thinking.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/168811535#/?channel=COM_BUY
Not sure something like this would be suitable for social housing

More likely suitable for posh serviced housing for rich retirees/care etc. Maybe some will feel right at home if they went to similar schools themselves.
But social housing, not a chance!

Crikey - are we still banging on about this 😂. I have two in private - if anything - our school have expanded and are doing quite well - we have waiting lists across the board. We also have loads of boarders. I also dont get the whole - 'if you cant afford 20% you couldnt have afforded private anyway' - what a bizarre way to think! I do feel for the kids who are SEN who have had to be pulled out of their schools because of this tho - that's unfortunate.

our DS has been at private school since reception. Currently coming up to a natural break point post GCSEs and we are in 2 minds. He has a place confirmed at grammar school for sixth form. We love his school but it is now a huge amount of money, so we are still deciding! We are not alone in his year - many are in the same position. He had already started his GCSEs when the policy came in so this is the first real opportunity to move

There is more to the tax than the 20% increase on fees. The targeted nature of the tax (as opposed to something burdened by the wider public), the motivating narrative promoted to Labour politicians, and the extremely toxic and politicised debate around its introduction have created a stigma against independent schools.

For the most part, people who are already in the system will react defensively against that stigma -- we think it's not accurate or justified. But for new parents to go private now that it's more expensive AND a political target? That creates a barrier that exceeds the 20% increase in fees.

Wow, nonsensical personal insult AND an attempt to change the subject.Is it possible that somebody has realised that taxing children’s education might actually be indefensible and they’ve let themselves be manipulated by basic resent politics aimed at children?

Yes I agree it was sickening, the Secretary of education referring to the 93% at state education as ‘our’ children.Reeves unable to stop smirking when school closures were raised, Classic divisive resentment politics. It doesn’t make any sense, but you kind of know you become an immoral selfish person in Labours eyes once you earn over £100k ..bringing children into it was way below the belt and it will have repercussions in so many ways. I personally think this will haunt Labour, I for one will do my tiny bit to remind people that Labour is a children’s education tax party.

They do indeed and, unlike in England where applications have to be made for schools, you generally automatically get placed in your catchment school.

If they “really really struggle”, then they can’t afford it! Maybe they should work harder or get a better job or something? Those things that poor people are expected to do to get by.

I don’t know what to tell you. I’m on the minority amongst legal colleagues sending my children to state school, and I include much more junior (non partner) lawyers than me. Also most people I come across in accountancy and banking send their children private. My relative who is a consultant is also in the minority amongst their colleagues sending to state school.

This doesn’t make sense to me, can you explain a bit more. At what level can someone afford something going by this logic? Is it when they could afford a 30% tax, 50, 60% tax ?

Our school didn’t have any leavers, but about 1/3 less joiners than usual (primary). Out of the kids moving to their next school parents are still choosing private.

Realistically very few people who truly value private education will disrupt their child’s schooling for the sake of a few thousand pounds. Our fees There’s definitely less exotic holidays and fewer brand new cars at drop off though.

We don’t have 6th form. You can leave school after Nat5 (GCSE equivalent) or stay on at school for another 1 or 2 years to study Highers and Advanced Highers. There’s not a separate college you go to or whatever.

@Springtime2026 - I would focus on the A levels he wants to do and what he may want to study at uni and how that would be supported in the grammar vs current school. For example, the grammar DD is at is absolutely excellent at Med/Vet applications and most of them are successful and much more so than any of the local private schools. Same for Econ, Compsi type stuff. If you look at the uni courses, including Law, very high percentage of state school kids in there. So a lot of people are pulling kids out of private for that reason too I think. There will be someone along to tell me that unis only look where you took your GCSEs but that appears to be complete nonsense. I think if you have spent this much money already and A levels are the most important stage, make sure you get that one right. The teaching and peer group at A level is really important. Also do not assume class sizes in state will be bigger. DD will have one A level taught 3:1 next year with a teacher with a PhD.
Having said all of that, DD was in another all girls state grammar previously and I am really pleased she wanted to move as the new challenge has been great for her. She had a lot of good friends but it was all very comfortable for her and the new school is more boy heavy and some of them are incredibly clever and it is good for her to be challenged that way.

Im a teacher. I work pretty hard thanks and I had no choice but to afford it since my kid could not access the local state school safely. Pop onto the SEN boards and see what you find there. My car is 14 years old, I live in one of the cheapest parts of the UK. I made it work. I.knkw not everyone can but I absolutely am not rich or even wealthy and my kid is not called Tarquin. Not a pony in sight.

Until people stop with these pathetic, lazy stereotypes to demonise children and parents who are busting a gut to do their best for them, those who thrive on and benefit from division will keep doing it. And before anyone jumps on me, im.not saying anyone who cant afford it doesn't care, or that its impossible for many.kifs to thrive in state, but until thats true for all, its profoundly wrong to make it even harder for people in my and my son's shoes.

@SALaw I would expect similar in a MC law firm , plus many have gps to help pay fees.

but you kind of know you become an immoral selfish person in Labours eyes once you earn over £100k

I don’t understand this point. What did labour do to those earning 100k? Plenty of people who earn 100k can’t afford private school.

And this private school parent earns significantly less than £100k. !

It hasn't stopped Labour digging their claws into my life either.

I'm just clinging on for ds to finish his a'levels in June. And then for 2029 when we will all be rid of Labour. Can't come soon enough for anyone.

There have been a few planning applications put in but haven't seen the outcomes, though I am sure some schools could become derelict. Perhaps the government will purchase them to house people who are seeking asylum, as there seems to be a trend to using isolated rural areas. That said, my point is it would be a beautiful irony, not it will be, but would love to see it happen.

The state schools where I am based all let their grounds and sports halls etc, to private clubs. The money raised is then ploughed back into resources for the schools and students. Some of the states schools have gyms that locals can pay to use outside of school hours, too. Just needs a little bit of initiative.