"We can't justify a £52 lunch" - AIBU to think you didn't need to?

[PropitiousJump]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg3g11z6d8o

I found this article irritating. Middle earning families complaining they can't afford a day out, in part because of the expense of eating lunch and dinner out. A family of four in both cases.

I completely agree it's got expensive to eat out, but have they never heard of taking your own sandwiches?

And if you look at what they've eaten, they've ordered a lot of extras that have bumped up the bill.

Costa family - £52 lunch for four. If they could have done without an overpriced bag of crisps on top of their mains, and not had puddings (this was lunch, not dinner) they could have got the bill down to a more reasonable £40ish - a tenner each.

Pizza Express family - £174 dinner for four. If they cut out the starter and side orders and the adults had soft drinks instead of alcohol, they could have got the bill down to approx £109 for soft drinks, mains and a dessert each.

This isn't saying they are eating too much - it's not a diet-bashing thread - but common sense says that if you are eating in a chain place on a day out and trying to keep costs down, you don't order loads of extras and alcohol. Have a drink and a snack at home if you're still hungry. Save all the extras for an 'occasion' where eating out is the focus of the event and you're going somewhere special, not fuelling up in a chain restaurant.

AIBU?

Totally agree. As a child we always took picnics on days out (, and my dad got us to hide any of our own food ie at a swimming pool where it wasnt allowed to bring own food) because we couldnt afford to. Swimming yes...food not. Even as a nanny for upper middle class families I would always pack a lunchbox for the children maybe out of habit but also unless they specified to eat out i didnt want to waste my kitty fund on food they had at home.

But whenever I go out to local towns or cities near where I live (SE) or London, restaurants and cafes are heaving (and not overseas tourists). I realise it might not be the same everywhere but certainly no signs of people cutting back around here.

Sounds like a rubbish day out doing overpriced things anyway. Aquariums and laser quest/bowling etc have always been expensive 20 minute flash in the pan low imagination activities anyway.

What kid wants a meal out in boring old pizza express? They would prefer happy meal any day.

You can afford it, if you choose not to buy the optional £15 photos, go to actual lunch places to eat instead of chain coffee shops for lunch etc .

I used to take my kids to the local Italian - not a chain - every Friday. Not for a big meal just pizza and desert and a glass of wine for me. it was always not-bat-an-eye price. Now we go every 6 months ish. I feel so sad... this little independent restaurant is empty. And we cannot afford to support it. I earn £80k.... I can't afford weekly pizza! (This is not poor me but poor the little Italian place...)

Their paninis are great! A Costa panini with a strong espresso is a great lunch. Though the family from the article were stuffing their kids with cookies, juice and cake on top of paninis. So no shit the total was so high and pretty unhealthy as well. Milking that BBC money 😂

Yeah we have started to have to take picnic everywhere. Which is ridiculous. We earn over 100k combined and as company directors that’s very tax efficient. So it makes absolutely no sense how we can’t afford a lunch these days.

This is an accurate summary. Until recent years the cost of both food and eating out has been dropping relative to income. Compared to the 80s, 90s & early 2000s, people started to eat out & have coffee out a lot more. The number of coffee chains and chain restsurants expanded. It is a relatively recent trend to eat out regularly as a family. Now due to increasing costs it is reducing.

Yep. I've not had a pay rise in three years. Meanwhile our costs as a family are spiralling. Everything has gone up at least 5% in those years meaning I'm now 3 x 5% less well off. Can't get a new job, at least not one paying more.

Yes of course we should be sensible with money.

however, the broader point is that there are people who are incredibly rich at the expense of everybody else and this is a nice way of illustrating that point.

I wouldn't choose it as a specific lunch place but I'd have lunch there on a day out if say it was next to/at the train station or if it was near a museum and the museum cafe didn't do any lunch foods etc.

Our DC are grown up.
When we had a day put, for example to:
The Zoo
The Museums
Legoland/theme park
(Insert whatever)

We took a picnic, which the children loved. They got an ice-cream and a couple of quid in the shop but were never that fussed. If dd and I were shopping, I'd get her something from a coffee shop and I'd have a coffee.

Eating out was a separate treat on birthdays, etc.

We were and are a little more than middle income. We chose not to waste money on crap.

But is it because you have more outgoings?

im still not sure I feel any wealthier than I was as a student ( I had fees paid, and a part time job and parents paid my accommodation).

so my disposable income was actually pretty high. Now I’m middle aged with mortgage, kids and all the bills, im
not sure I feel any richer!

I’d say there are 2 ways of eating out

1. Need to eat something and not brought a packed lunch - eg going to aquarium - agree with OP I’d never get those extras.
2. Eating out is the main event/ social meeting, I’d get extras.

This is not because of price of eating out, I’d alway approach like this.

I disagree - of course, I was mildly peeved (but not at all surprised) at the time, but my dad was teaching me to make sensible choices. As an adult, I always take my own cold drinks when I go out - from a multipack - which is a fraction of the cost of buying a single can. I baulk at paying £3.50 for a single can of Coke, just as my dad baulked at paying fifteen-and-a-half p or whatever it cost in those days.

I disagree..what's 'normal' and 'ordinary' is not a fixed point. The point being made was that whereas previously a family with two professional incomes could do that sort of thing regularly and without too much thought, things have now changed that they cant. Its not tiny violin time...its an illustration of the change that has occurred. They could just as easily have made the same point with a different demographic...having an ice cream or not at the beach alongside home made picnic, shopping at Aldi not Tesco but the point remains the same.

I think the point is, that families who used to be able to afford meals out etc are cutting back, so that is a sign of bad news for the overall economy.

They’re not exactly going without, even if they cut back a little. Certainly not worth running to the newspaper about.

I earn more than their combined income, with my partner earning that again. I haven’t forgotten what it feels like to have nothing and certainly wouldn’t complain about having less spends heavy days out.

In our house:

• Paid days out usually have a picnic lunch
• Bowling is on the special offer evening
• If our tickets has free return for a year, it may still be a picnic then coffee/cake in the cafe to support, not always lunch
• Paid days out usually a max of fortnightly, with free trips to the beach and park in between

Exactly. They were probably told to buy a certain amount of stuff rather than what they would have got had they been spending their own money.

I do sort of get your point OP - i used the read all the different money diaries (metro, refinery29 etc) and it used to drive me mad when every single day they'd pop to the shop and get a single chocolate bar/bag of crisps/diet coke and take them back to their desk for work. I used to think - if you know you're eating that every day just buy a multipack and save yourself at least a tenner a week!

So, yes, for lots of people there are very easy savings they could make which wouldn't impact on their actual enjoyment of a day out - as you say by all means enjoy the hot toasties rather than a sad dry sandwich that's been crushed in your bag for hours, but get a pack of cookies for £1 rather than buying four at £2.95 each.

But overall agree with the previous posters that the overriding point of the article is that generally what used to be seen as very normal affordable weekly activities that could be done by average earners without having to constantly think of budget, are expensive to the point of approaching unaffordability. There's also the point that these additional incidental purchases often have the biggest profit margins so can be all that's keeping the cafe/tourist experience open - i used to work in a cinema, for example, and if you only included actual ticket sales it would be working at a loss - it was the (overpriced) popcorn and snacks that actually made a profit. So if people did cut down anymore many places would have to close completely.

I on the other hand “earn” £83.30 a week as a carer for my disabled son so can’t afford it anyway but completely agree, eating anywhere with young children is utterly shite. I think when they’re entering teens is usually when eating out becomes more important to them. Mine are just about coping with a Chinese buffet (beige food pallet for disabled son) or a carvery. Eating out was a big part of DH and I time before kids and I did think I’d miss the evenings in nice bars and restaurants but I don’t really. Instead I’m more excited by cooking, how boring am I please 😂

I didn't say it's better though, did I?

I said it was normal. And it is.

The idea of what is luxury and what is a basic standard of living has quite dramatically shifted in recent decades. Unfortunately, it's not sustainable environmentally or economically.

I like to use the examples of birthday cakes. Back in the day, these were usually simple two-tier sponges. Or small fairy cakes with a bit of royal icing and sprinkles. And that was considered lovely and special (and it was and is). You only have to look in cookbooks from the 70s and 80s to see this.

Now however the trend is for giant tiered creations with elaborate decorations and themes. Gone are small fairy cakes, replaced with larger cupcakes that are often more buttercream than cake.

I know this thread isn't about cake, but I find it a good illustration of how our expectations and demands have changed.

We can't keep increasing the luxuries we consume infinitely. At some point the bubble will burst (see: now) and we'll have to get used to living a bit more simply.

They’re not exactly going without, even if they cut back a little. Certainly not worth running to the newspaper about.

They didn’t run to a newspaper. The BBC paid for it all to confect a story. They had a nice free day out and then said all the things they were primed to.

Why is this country so obsessed with a race to the bottom? Is that our British culture that Nigel keeps banging on about?

(And no, I don't eat at Costa because I can't afford to. I don't eat at Pizza Express because I can't afford to)

Well I guess all those outraged graduates/wanna be business starters could all get a job in Pizza Express and try life on the minimum wage if they feel that hard done by?

If its ever been the norm for the middle class families to eat out regularly then it was for a very short time in history. It wasn't the norm in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s as far as I remember, and I'm middle class born and bred. It used to be a rare Big Treat.

The name of the Panorama episode is the cost of 'Little Luxuries'. That's exactly what they are but it's so depressing when little luxuries are becoming unaffordable. People mentioning ice creams on a day out - have you seen the cost of a round of ice creams lately?! I'll be watching the programme with interest.