"We can't justify a £52 lunch" - AIBU to think you didn't need to?

[PropitiousJump]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg3g11z6d8o

I found this article irritating. Middle earning families complaining they can't afford a day out, in part because of the expense of eating lunch and dinner out. A family of four in both cases.

I completely agree it's got expensive to eat out, but have they never heard of taking your own sandwiches?

And if you look at what they've eaten, they've ordered a lot of extras that have bumped up the bill.

Costa family - £52 lunch for four. If they could have done without an overpriced bag of crisps on top of their mains, and not had puddings (this was lunch, not dinner) they could have got the bill down to a more reasonable £40ish - a tenner each.

Pizza Express family - £174 dinner for four. If they cut out the starter and side orders and the adults had soft drinks instead of alcohol, they could have got the bill down to approx £109 for soft drinks, mains and a dessert each.

This isn't saying they are eating too much - it's not a diet-bashing thread - but common sense says that if you are eating in a chain place on a day out and trying to keep costs down, you don't order loads of extras and alcohol. Have a drink and a snack at home if you're still hungry. Save all the extras for an 'occasion' where eating out is the focus of the event and you're going somewhere special, not fuelling up in a chain restaurant.

AIBU?

Exactly this, but apparently the OP is 'missing the point'

Err no, that is exactly the point

AIBU to think 'you didnt need to'

No, they didnt need to.

Not sure if you’re being wilfully ignorant but you’re talking about the experiences of households with “lowish” incomes. The Panorama episode was about supposedly wealthier, middle income households. The fact that a middle income household today has to live like a low income household of yesteryear is exactly the point they’re making!

This is such a short minded way of seeing things. Often, you'll see not 6 cafes going down to 3, but the only cafe/hospitality venue of the area shutting down. Also, all these places provide jobs, livelihood and they also encourage other businesses to open nearby. It has a domino effect.

Why should they be able to afford it when they couldn’t in my childhood, and housing is much more expensive and the UK economy is much poorer now?

Unless your family was living below the poverty line there would have been things they could afford, even if your parents chose not to spend their money that way.

Things like lunch or tea in a department store cafe, takeaway fish and chips, a Mars bar after swimming, trips to the cinema etc (actually, both my parents grew up in the 1950s in households with very little money and both remember weekly Saturday morning cinema trips with ice cream).

These types of things aren’t new.

Why shouldn't they? if they do an honest days work, why shouldn't they be paid an honest days pay that allows them to afford what you couldn't have in your childhood?

There such a contradictory stance on this thread from posters who think they're making pertinent points

They think the economy is going to suffer unless 'we' all do things which keep those business alive but equally are horrified at the current cost of that and feeli its a step backwards into the 70s (shudder) or worse if you cant have these treats as a matter of course, the norm, the everyday.

Except that NMW means hiring costs, and other costs not connected with wages has put prices up. So the argument is I want my wages to go up so that I can afford these things as a matter of course, the norm, the everyday. But I dont want the prices of these things to go up because then I cant afford them

But I need enough money to keep the economy afloat by having these things as a matter of course, the norm, the everyday.

What about the person serving you then, or stacking the shelves or the person who has been sacked because now its all self service tills because the consumer wants to pay less and therefore the Coop (looking at you coop), has got rid of tons of staff.

I dont have an answer to that, but its a contradiction people dont even realist they're making, wanting wages to apparently keep pace with inflation, without realising that higher wages mean things cost more, which you then need higher wages for and so on. People dont want never ending growth because its bad for the planet, but apparently we do want never ending growth because otherwise the economy will tank.

People do want growth because they dont want to live like people did in the 70s (shudder) but they dont want growth because that puts prices up for the middle classes.

Which is it?

And yet we constantly get told that the poor employers can't afford the high salaries and so aren't employing people. Even though they are massively subsidised by tax credits and wages haven't remotely kept up with house prices.

Just finished work, didn't expect so many replies! Will catch up over dinner, thanks to everyone who has shared views.

dad was an engineer, mum was a nurse. We are out about once a year.

dad was an engineer, mum was a nurse. We are out about once a year.

I thought they were actually pretty restrained only having one glass of wine given Panorama was paying!

But how would that work economically? We couldn’t afford it in the past, and yet things have got much tougher and yet we expect to be able to afford it now? I don’t want to have to go there with all of the boomers bitching about how ‘you just need to give up avocados’ but I do think insta etc has give the impression that a new Range Rover, 4 bed detached, 2 city breaks, 2 weeks in the med, a skiing holiday and eating out all the time are the norm. They certainly aren’t where I come from!

What a wierd thread, completely missing the point

Has @PropitiousJump never been out for a family meal?
Bonkers

I thought the same @PropitiousJump Costa is overpriced and mediocre but also, pizza express I always make sure to have a 241 voucher or a tastecard or something (got one free with last white goods purchase. Unless I have an offer for those places I just don’t use them - would rather go somewhere better at those prices. I could afford it but think it’s wasteful and want my money to go further!

Well NMW and the living wage has gone through the roof in terms of percentages

Not in terms of comparable house prices in some parts of the country, although in many parts of the country you can buy a good property on NMW

So the picture is not just one thing.

im not sure where it is you don't want to go?

The cost of living hasn't always been the case - the 90s and 00s were in the main boom years and people could afford extras.

We earn well, we are also careful with our resources. Eating out has always been our thing - good quality food once a week at a family run eatery, often as part of a day trip. We live in Germany, where these places are easy to find.

Nevertheless. Prices have shot up so much in the last 6 years, we notice we are being more restrained. 2 pizzas instead of 3 at the local Italian takeout. Turkish wraps rather than a sit down dinner. No starter when at a restaurant. And this is from high earners who enjoy food.

Prices have mushroomed, salaries have stagnated. And nobody’s a winner.

Not in terms of comparable house prices in some parts of the country, although in many parts of the country you can buy a good property on NMW

NMW is just shy of £25k where can you buy a house with a £25k deposit?

Agreed. I know it was for the article but it wasn't a basic lunch or dinner. Wine/beer and 3 courses. If I was out for a snack lunch in a Costa-type chain, I'd have a sandwich and a drink. If I was at a pizza restaurant, I'd have pizza and drink, possibly a pudding.

Lots of houses in the North East for £125k and under, so a £25k deposit and 4x mortgage on NMW.

People could afford it in the past though. If you go back 15/20 years you could run and home and expect some little luxuries along the way. Two people in professional jobs could have a pretty good standard of living. People aren’t talking about steak and caviar every day, they’re talking about a bog standard pizza every couple of weeks.

Comparing with the 70s isn’t realistic because society as a whole has changed hugely - not just wages and house prices, but eating habits, attitudes to clothing, socialising all look very different now, along with the influences on people’s lives.

Most banks do multiples, in fact Ive not known of a mortgage product that will only lend 1x your wage

So a single person, having saved up 7k or so, can buy a property for about 75k

2 people on NMW can get something for about 150k, once they have a deposit.

There are lots of places in the country where properties can be bought for these prices.

Lots of places in Scotland.

I think Costa is massively overpriced for low quality fast food. I don't really ever go because their coffee and tea are both awful. Tea is made in an urn and not properly boiled. Coffee tastes like instant.