"We can't justify a £52 lunch" - AIBU to think you didn't need to?

[PropitiousJump]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg3g11z6d8o

I found this article irritating. Middle earning families complaining they can't afford a day out, in part because of the expense of eating lunch and dinner out. A family of four in both cases.

I completely agree it's got expensive to eat out, but have they never heard of taking your own sandwiches?

And if you look at what they've eaten, they've ordered a lot of extras that have bumped up the bill.

Costa family - £52 lunch for four. If they could have done without an overpriced bag of crisps on top of their mains, and not had puddings (this was lunch, not dinner) they could have got the bill down to a more reasonable £40ish - a tenner each.

Pizza Express family - £174 dinner for four. If they cut out the starter and side orders and the adults had soft drinks instead of alcohol, they could have got the bill down to approx £109 for soft drinks, mains and a dessert each.

This isn't saying they are eating too much - it's not a diet-bashing thread - but common sense says that if you are eating in a chain place on a day out and trying to keep costs down, you don't order loads of extras and alcohol. Have a drink and a snack at home if you're still hungry. Save all the extras for an 'occasion' where eating out is the focus of the event and you're going somewhere special, not fuelling up in a chain restaurant.

AIBU?

I think you're missing the point. Our economy and the cost of living crisis is at the point where good income families can't afford a cookie or a packet of crisps with their sandwich, or a glass of wine with a cheap chain restaurant dinner.

If people who earn well are struggling, then what's it like for those that don't earn well.

The average is a good indicator of condition. The people in the middle are poor, so where are the people at the bottom..

And yes, debt is a huge issue. People aren't adjusting their behaviour as fast as retailers are adjusting their pricing. People are living the same, on the same income, but finding themselves short, so credit cards, overdrafts, loans are making up the shortfall. This oil crisis is going to cause a huge collapse. I was at the gas merchants today, who warned me prices are going up and to stock up.

But you end up always waiting for tomorrow. You start your career and save for a house deposit, then it’s saving for maternity leave, then it’s over paying the mortgage and throwing money at pensions, and then you retire and need to keep your money to pay for care costs.

It’s a miserable, treadmill existence if you can never pay for things you find pleasurable, be that a holiday, hair appointment or a pizza lunch. Yes it’s important to plan for the future but I also want to enjoy time with my kids and my husband. To enjoy a nice meal, to travel a bit while I have health and energy to do so.

But you can do all that on a budget and spread out.

Can people please to explain to me why chains might be on a boycott list?

Maybe you haven't, but I have, as have millions of others. I'm really good at 10-pin bowling. I'd do it more if it wasn't so expensive. Walks with my dogs in the country are also fun - and free - but they're not a treat. Variety is the spice of life for most people. And if you work hard and earn what seems like a decent salary, you should bloody well be able to afford a few more luxurious treats among all the dog walks. (Although dogs are also a very expensive luxury - maybe I should get rid of mine. What do you think?)

You're clearly the hair-shirt-wearing type. You do you, but you're obviously enjoying judging everyone by your own standards and finding them wanting.

We always just got a meal deal and sat in the sun somewhere

Exactly. Both my parents saved hard for retirement, retired, and now both have cancer. They can't go do all the things they want, even though they can afford them. If it's taught me anything, it's the importance of living in the moment.

Isn't it obvious from the previous posts?

I’m certainly not. I just don’t think expensive days out like that with meals on top of experiences and that amount of food are a necessary regular occurrence.

You could do ten pin bowling more regularly without a meal out too. And if you can afford your dog all power to you.

Some of my favourite things activities have been mentioned already - going for walks, the library, spending time outside - but those things don't feel fun if they're your only option. If you're always having to bring food and drinks, if you're always saying no to the extras. It's nice to be able to get your kids a hot chocolate after a wintery walk, or chips at the seaside. It's miserable to feel like what should be affordable treats are now far less affordable than they were a couple of years ago, despite having a job and being sensible with your money. I want to support the local coffee shop or pizza place, not always the big chain because I've got a voucher. If you can't relax the purse strings, then it's pretty hard to relax generally, and that's no way to live.

Leeds Castle is £34 for a year long ticket - that isn't any more expensive than other places family ticket is £87

A mid week visit with a lunch is £37

Chatesworth House is £28 per adult

Warwick Castle is £26 or £86 for 4 people

Its not the prices that are expensive - its that people think £60,000 is a decent wage - that is the problem

Maybe you didn’t bit your kids might. I don’t love soft play but my kids did, so we did soft play, I don’t love junior football but my DS did, so I stood in the pissing rain watching him.

My kids love a pizza lunch, it’s a treat for them. I’d prefer somewhere else but part of being a parent means doing things that might not thrill you.

Affordability hugely influences the experiences we can share with our kids, they don’t all need to be Michelin starred restaurants or high culture to be worthwhile.

Isn’t a hot chocolate or chips afford able if you’re mostly doing cheaper things.
The cost of both is a world away from the days out in the article.

There is the point, and there is you, and you are WILFULLY swerving it.

Someone has been paying to visit Costa and Pizza Express, and aquariums and cinemas and bowling alleys and all the other purveyors of luxury item that make up a big chunk of the economy.

Not you. You were knitting your own fun, piously. All good.

And not many people on decent incomes.

No one you know or like has been paying for luxury items. Other forms of fun are available. Library cards exist. WE FUCKING GET IT.

Now try and understand, though, that someone has been paying for fun. Because outlets where you can buy paid, non-essential fun exist.

With me so far? Costa exists. Pizza Express exists. Wait. Do you believe in aquariums? They also exist.

And now, the people that used to pay for them to exist - we know, not you, or anyone you know, or anyone that you can find empathy for, yes WE KNOW - but some people that used to pay for these places to exist, are now finding that they no longer have the money to pay for them.

(Yes, we know - they can get a library card - but just hold onto that thought for a moment. Sit on it. I know you want to say it out loud - but just sit on it a moment. Because...).

Those people aren't moaning about it. They aren't trying to play the poverty card. They are well aware that relative to others, they are lucky. They are not struggling. They just can't afford the luxuries.

(Still - sit on the 'local seed swap' thought. Hold on tight to it next to 'a nice walk in the park' for just one second longer. Because...).

If the people that used to pay for the luxury things to exist (not you, we know, you were doing yoga in your back garden), can no longer afford to pay for the luxury things to exist, then those things will no longer exist.

Theatres, cinemas, aquariums, coffee shops, family restaurants... They will all cease to be.

(Just one more plea to sssshhhhh about picnics for a minute).

And when the luxury experience providers cease to be - when we no longer have a demand for leisure and tourism - they will take thousands of jobs with them, and a massive chunk of the economy, and the people making picnics to enjoy in the park will have even less butter to spread over the bread.

That's the message that people able to read and comprehend, took from the BBC article.

And despite these prices, restaurants still hardly make any money. Avoid them, and we'll loose them... like when people stopped being social and just going to the local pub for a couple of beers and a catch up. Home entertainment is insane these days. But it's not social. Do you really think restaurants want to charge what they do? No of course not - well then, just let a local kid come and wash up and earn some pocket money, but don't make the restaurant pay the insane staffing costs they are forced to. They shouldn't be paying a 16 year old living at home who constantly cancels shifts, takes time out for exams, and is generally just at that age in life where they want a bit of cash, freedom and to just have fun, anywhere near the same as a 20 something year old who is trying to carve out a career in the industry. Which is constantly what this government is trying to do. Society can't have it both ways.

You have missed the point of the article in my view. It’s great you’re so frugal and competent with managing days out in a more cost effective way but the article is more about how prices have shot up and the little indulgences that used to feel possible no longer do for many families.

My closest friend died last year age 62. She did everything right, economised where she could, paid down the mortgage, prioritised her pension, planned to travel when she retired “it’ll all pay off when I’m not working, it’ll be worth the restrictions”. Except she didn’t get there, and her kids dearly wish they had more “unnecessary” meals and days out while they could.

Oh I love sitting in the sun in February!

This^ is exactly my point of view.
I can’t comment on lunch at Costa, I’m not familiar with their lunch options etc but Pizza express family bill looked outrageous. And it wasn’t the price of wine for me - it’s standard price for big glass of nicer wine out there and having pizza and a glass of wine didn’t look too much for me. It was the fact that they didn’t order kids meals but ordered enormous amount of sides and 4 desserts.
And we were paying for this insightful “investigation” because it was a BBC programme. F* that !!!!

I’m not sure I agree with you here. Our local Costa has a fairly depressing vibe. Most customers clearly have quite chaotic lives, and maybe the coffee out is the one thing that keeps life bearable.

In the UK, like most advanced economies, consumer spending makes up the majority of GDP. When people have money left after essentials, they spend it on days out, meals and entertainment, small luxuries and home improvements. This discretionary spending is what keeps small businesses alive, supports jobs, and creates the multiplier effect that drives growth. When households are squeezed, the first thing to go is exactly this type of spending.

High inflation erodes small incomes. Even if wages rise, they rarely keep pace with inflation. Essentials such rent, mortgage, energy, and food eat a bigger share of income. If taxes are high on top of high inflation and high essential bills, the effect is that people cut discretionary spending, businesses see lower demand, hiring stops and investment drops. Governments sometimes forget that taxation isn’t just about revenue. Its also about leaving enough oxygen in the exonomy for people to participate.

Whats good for the economy is at odds with what is good for the environment. What can we do about it? Oil is becoming more expensive, its a limited resource. Everything is going to become more expensive. It will lead to job losses and it will all spiral. I don't see how we can fix any of it.

Exactly. This is so mumsnet. ‘I can’t do that because…’

I have a pair of running shoes that I bought on vinted for £25 a year ago and was just thinking of replacing them after 20 miles a week for 9 months. You don’t need to spend lots of money. You can learn to cook from YouTube. Basic cheap ingredients to make delicious nutritious dinners. You just have to want to make the effort.

Thats wild! Im obviously lucky to have a few little sandwich places dotted around where I am!

So oil is becoming more expensive because people don't care about the environment and eat out too much.
I see...