Should a vaccination programme be roll out nationwide for Meningitis B for teens/young adults

[SSAW2026]

Watching the recent outbreak in Kent.

The rapid decline of young people with Meningitis B and the sad death of 2 in such a quick time after symptoms onset, makes ne wonder if a full vaccination programme is needed nationwide.

The problem is (among other) that a full vaccine rollout costs billions. It's no insight at all to say there is finite money for the NHS at the moment. Any tax rise whatsoever is hammered in the press.

The reality of public health policy is that we don't try to reduce deaths to nil, as it's an economic/real-world impossibility. We rightly take a view based on proportionality.

It's really instructive that an actual vaccines professional has posted upthread, explaining why this is a bad idea, and has been largely ignored.

Give me fucking strength.

I wonder if a tax rise was suggested to cover the coat of this, how many would still be on board?

I'm sure vaccinating pensioners against RSV, shingles, pneumococcal disease, covid and other vaccines every year that no other age groups receive cost billions, but that's not questioned as it's reduces their risk.

Same here. It's wrong to only vaccinate babies with MenB when other age groups are at higher risk too - the criteria should be widened.

I understood that the Men B vaccine is already on the usual schedule of vaccinations for those born in/after 2015 (or is it 2016?). Three jabs as a baby/toddler.

My DC are 12 and 19, so missed out on this but have had all the other vaccinations. I did pay for the first Men B vaccinations for both back in 2017, but then annoyingly was too skint to pay for the next two (to complete the course). XH leaving/divorce, Covid happening, my Dad dying, life happening aetc and I completely forgot to save for it. I contacted the Meningitis research people for advice (we're in Kent) this week, and they told me that Men B only lasts about 3-5yrs. I'm going to consider getting eldest sorted first, and then youngest after, but will get advice on this.

Because - as well as the fools who are conspiracy theorists and unable to weigh up the value of what they read in one place against another - there are many people who are well travelled and read and who are able to see that the NHS underperforms compared to other western countries. Cost savings and politics sometimes predominate at the expense of patient welfare. Now that may not be the case in relation to vaccinations, but people can and should ask.

Yes definitely

It is truly awful what has happened and arguably we shouldn't be discussing this in public in case the family and friends of those impacted are reading this. But the reality is that it would be totally impractical right now to do this. Look around the world, no country is blanket vaccinating as much as is being suggested on Mumsnet. Our doctors and scientists and those in every other country, don't currently think it's viable. Surely you can see that if the qualified people around the globe think we shouldn't that you, presumably not qualified, might be wrong?

This would be interesting to look at. Please could you link to what those scientists in both this country and every other country have said why it's not viable? It would be good to read.

Irrespective of anyone's personal opinion I've had mine vaccinated privately when it first came out and will do again when they go to sixth form.

But it was UK scientists who actually produced the first Men B vaccine and the UK was the first to introduce it/include it in the childhood immunisation programme. So explain to me how we are underperforming in this area?

Yes, absolutely!

The NHS can afford £1 billion every year to vaccinate only over 65's for several diseases, as they are at the highest risk.

I assume vaccinating, say 18-21's, would cost less than this (and then when caught up, say vaccinate at age 18, or whatever).

I've got no desire to investigate any claims myself thanks. If someone is quoting me saying 'experts in this and Every other country' are saying don't vaccinate' they surely need to back that up with the evidence.

My minds already made up. I've already vaccinated mine with Men B and will have no hesitation in doing this privately

Are you? Sorry to learn of that.

I really feel for this family - it’s dreadful they have lost their daughter. (And I’m not sure who you are referring to when you say “many others who have lost their child”?). The loss of a child to anything is a parent’s worst nightmare.

The family calling for mass vaccination is not unlike movie stars etc. who come down with some dreadful illness or disease - suddenly they think that illness/disease/condition should be researched/cured/treated. They didn’t even think about the illness before but now they think it should be everyone’s priority. But it doesn’t work like that.

An organisation as big as Public Health cannot make decisions based on emotion or unsound evidence. Increased risk is not enough - there has to be proven increased harm as evidenced by increased hospitalisation, increased morbidity, increased health care associated costs and increased deaths - people dying whilst tragic, is only part of the picture.

If there was strong evidence that the vaccine would prevent “the worst outcomes” for a statistically significant number of people, it would be given. We saw that with Covid yet we’ve still got many, many people believing it was some form of government control.

Yes, sadly Alfie and Matthew, I don't want to say their full names on here, as well as the student's family yesterday, spring to mind.

So tragic for these families x

Because we vaccinate against most other things they've added on to the baby jabs since 2015. And hundreds of people die unnecessarily every year from meningitis.

I'll be paying for mine to have it before university. I hadn't realised it was possible until this recent outbreak. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the affected.

The types of vaccines given to the older age groups are often done to change the course of the illness/disease once the virus/bacteria has been picked up. For example, to avoid the need for antibiotics and hospitalisation (and death).

There is no point in vaccinating someone if it doesn’t change the course of the illness - hence we are no longer vaccinating immunocompetent younger people against Covid because if they pick up the virus, they are unlikely to become unwell as their own immune systems are able to deal with it.

The human immune system starts to weaken significantly with age, around 65, hence “older” adults need a bit more help. Even if they don’t die, the costs of treating them and the impact on health services is so significant that it makes the cost/benefits analysis worthwhile. You don’t want your cancer surgery postponed because the surgical unit is having to board older medical patients with pneumonia.

The costs and potential vaccine-related side effects (although very small) of vaccinating a whole population of young people against Men B when the biggest majority of them will get no more than a sore throat, are simply not warranted. It doesn’t give lifetime protection - only a couple of years - and young people are likely to live a much longer time. A 75 year old getting the RSV vaccine to keep them out of hospital is unlikely to live for a huge amount of time longer, so waning protection becomes less of an issue.

We’ve got much bigger issues in Public Health such as measles and potentially TB owing to low uptake rates for MMR and mass migration (with TB) now that we no longer vaccinate babies out with high risk communities - the same high risk communities who are more likely to not engage with vaccination programmes.

For TB;

“England is on the brink of exceeding the WHO threshold of 10 cases per 100,000, driven by infections in cities and higher rates among vulnerable, underserved communities”.

https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s471#:~:text=Once%20considered%20a%20disease%20consigned,would%20want%20them%20to%20be.%E2%80%9D

If I had younger DC and lived in a UK city with a high migrant population, I’d seriously consider getting them vaccinated as protection lasts for decades.

No. I'm more than happy to vaccine privately.

You said scientists in 'every other country' say don't vaccinate. Just thought that was an interesting and bold claim.

But it doesn't matter, at the end of the day people can make their own minds up.

No vaccine will ever prevent all deaths. There will always be individuals in which the bacteria/virus gains growth advantages that the person’s body, for whatever reason, is unable to cope with.

Hundreds of deaths, while tragic, in a populations of millions is low, bearing in mind it will never be zero.

Say we did vaccinate all teens for Men B and two teenagers took an anaphylactic reaction and died? We’d have an outcry that they died unnecessarily and that we shouldn’t be vaccinating everyone for an illness that usually causes nothing worse than a sore throat.

I would leave it to the group of experts at JCVI who weigh up all the evidence including costs. They make the decision on all vaccines including as pp said about rev, flu for older people. Each vaccine and cohort is analysed with the evidence. Thats why sometimes things change like rsv being now offered to over 80s and we had changes with the flu group a few years ago.
It isn't "public health " or "ukhsa" who decide. Same as GPS they cant vaccinate outside of the advice/schedule no matter who is loudly shouting/demanding.
I think parents need to look at making sure all vaccines are up to date. It could easily been measles or mumps or men c that spread which do have vaccines but uptake has been falling

THE UK was the first country in the world to roll out this vaccine in infants. 24 countries in the world have infant vaccination programmes, 54 have approved the vaccine for use but don't have funded programmes so the majority of countries don't vaccinate at all (relatively new vaccine, relatively rare disease so not top priority for poorer countries). The only place I could find that has a school based programne to vaccinates teens is South Australia.

The UK has one of the most vaccinated populations in the world, we have a far smaller population of people who are anti vaccination and because of the NHS vaccination is good value and we have the right infrastructure to deliver mass vaccination programmes and monitor the spread of new strains.

The evidence so far is that this is a strain that has been circulating for a few years, so what needs looking at is what was unusual about what happened at the nightclub that resulted in this cluster of infections because this is very unusual for MenB. I suspect more people will vaccinate their university bound children this summer but the public advice will be around behaviour rather than vaccination unless there is very compelling data from South Australia about the benefits.