AIBU to think a foetus is alive before birth?

[Mmmchocolatebuttons]

I had a discussion with someone, who believes that a foetus is not alive, until the point they are born. They also asserted that this was not an uncommon view. I have a hard time believing this so I'm putting it to the AIBU poll.

To be clear, I'm pro choice, but I do believe that, for example, a 30 week foetus is factually, scientifically considered to be alive.

Surely, even if you're pro-choice all the way up until birth, you accept that the foetus is alive?

YABU = A foetus is not alive, until birth.
YANBU = A foetus is alive in the womb.

Under some circumstances, as my friend whos twin was killed by someone attacking her mother and wanted the person done for murder not all cases

Yes this. The same mental gymnastics that some people are willing to embarrass themselves by pretending they think a man can identify in and out of womanhood several times in as many days or even moments.

For the most part (ie before viability) I’d say a foetus is alive in so much as it is a living thing dependent upon environment/host to continue to survive. So like gut bacteria, for instance. Alive doesn’t mean able to survive independently.

Legally no it is t in this country until it is born there is no legal person

so if a pregnant woman is stabbed if the baby is born dead there is no murder, it has to be born alive in order to do so

and from a legal perspective it makes sense

human life begins at conception being alive as an independent legal person begins at birth

Classic bit of mumsnet logic there, shoehorning trans issues into an unrelated thread 🏆

When compiling statistics the expression 'live births' is used. The alternative is generally 'still births'. Additionally, one form of miscarriage is when the foetus has died in the womb. As far as I can see, if we are using terminology and description in these ways a foetus is alive before its born

Right, I think trying to argue that it’s not alive or baby or a person weakens the pro choice argument.

I’m pro choice because no one is entitled to use another persons body to stay alive, not because I believe there’s a magical point where a fetus becomes a baby.

Medically they will try and save a baby that is born from 24 weeks. So they are alive when they get a heartbeat but not viable until 24 weeks

Of course it's alive! You don't have to be a person to be be alive. Plants are alive. Animals are alive. A foetus is alive. People who pretend it isn't have another agenda.

Yikes! Did she have no idea what was happening while she was pregnant? This level of ignorance about basic biology is worrying.

M - movement (a foetus moves)
R - respiration (a foetus respires)
S - sensitivity (a foetus responds to its environment)
G - growth (a foetus growsh
R - reproduction (a foetus can reproduce when it reaches maturity)
E - excretion (a foetus produces waste)
N - nutrition (a foetus needs “food” (glucose, amino acids, vitamins etc)

Yes - it’s alive.

It is not capable of independent life, but neither are parasites and parasites are absolutely alive.

I see it more as a comment on the extremely worrying levels of ignorance of biology and the propensity of some to allow ideology to overtake all fact and rationality. Two cheeks of the same arse so to speak.

Have you seen the lies the anti abortion lobby tell ?

Its alive. But not independent.

I think ideally we would move the abortion limit to slightly earlier than 24w as they can survive then— aside from issues found on scan.

I obviously dont agree with countries who are forcing birth and prioritising the baby

Well, quite.

If the Anti-Choice lobby weren't so deceitful, we wouldn't need to be so careful about the terminology we use.

I agree. Sounds a bit Handmaid's Tale, but it's alive yet it needs the host.

Of course the human is growing in there! its alive, I cant even believe anyone has to ask that, this day and age, its ridiculous!

to anyone... Don't want a child? then take precautions or do not have sex if becoming a mother is not an option!

Others see it as irrelevant derailing of the thread and agenda-pushing

It has a heartbeat, which indicates life.

Doesn’t make it unalive though does it 🫠

I had a serious kidney infection when I was just a few weeks pregnant, was taken for a scan, and the doctor said 'I'm very sorry, I'm afraid your baby has died', so in my opinion, a foetus is alive, without question.

DS1 was born at 24 weeks twenty years ago. We nearly lost him on more occasions than I can count, but he is very much still alive now. We are enormously lucky.

Of course it’s alive. So is a spider plant.