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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to expect Dominic Sandbrook to still be a good historian even when he is fangirling over misogynist George Orwell?

17 replies

wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 12:24

He and his copodcaster Tabitha on the new ‘The Book Club’ podcast dismiss his abusive behaviour as his being “handsy” and the well attested sexual assault on his childhood friend Jacinta as somehow unfounded.

Extraordinary to ignore significant recent research like Anna Funder’s ‘Wifedom’ about how his first wife, Eileen O’Shaughnessy was written out of his books by him, his life by his hagiographers and history by everyone who didn’t read the sources properly.

The assault on Jacinta left her with bruises on her hip and shoulder and torn clothing. She had to yell to get him to stop; this is not just being “handsy”.
This is a real sexual assault with evidence and testimony.

They neglect to give Eileen any credit for the poem she wrote at school called ‘1984’. They don’t mention her suggestion to make his political tract into a fable about animals. She was a very influential editor of his work. Her incredible courage in Spain when she saved lives in her role and he gave her no credit.

When she was ill - he disappeared and she died partly due to his neglect and her fear of spending too much of her own money on decent medical treatment. He totally used her and leeched her resources and then gave her no credit.

She was better educated than him and a powerful editor and tireless typist.
He left her alone during the adoption process - shockingly selfish.

On Jura he used people for anything he could get from them and nearly killed his own son and relatives on a crazy boat trip which was his plan and his responsibility. Completely deranged behaviour.

But the biographers cannot see him clearly despite all the evidence; He was evidently a monstrous person. That is relevant despite his being a brilliant writer. I care about his also being a fraud. That matters to me and it should matter to Sandbrook.

Of course Eileen might have fought for better treatment but Orwell could get away with it at that time.

Tolkien was a great writer and didn’t treat women like pieces of sh**.

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Heresakey · 19/03/2026 12:26

YANBU

Ps. Fangirling probably wasn't the best choice of words considering the content of your post.

ProudAmberTurtle · 19/03/2026 12:32

The allegations never came from her and only came decades after both of them had died. The evidence is far from conclusive and he never got a chance to defend himself.

What did you expect the podcaster to call him?

wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 12:33

It is a fair point of course. But I do like what it conveys despite its being misogynistic.

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wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 12:36

I think his use of prostitutes, his treatment and use of women, his serial infidelities to Eileen, this is more than “handsy”. From my understanding she told her cousin Dione.
Just because Jacinta was fond of him and admired him later - doesn’t mean he didn’t assault her.

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wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 12:37

ProudAmberTurtle · 19/03/2026 12:32

The allegations never came from her and only came decades after both of them had died. The evidence is far from conclusive and he never got a chance to defend himself.

What did you expect the podcaster to call him?

I think they should refer to him as a real misogynist not joke about it.

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TunafishSandwich · 19/03/2026 12:52

I think almost all male historical figures could be considered misogynists given the social fabric of the time.

wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 13:04

TunafishSandwich · 19/03/2026 12:52

I think almost all male historical figures could be considered misogynists given the social fabric of the time.

I agree but shouldn’t a contemporary historian reflect new evidence and perspectives particularly when a woman has been intentionally written out of Orwell’s success?

I am not saying Orwell should be cancelled - just that Sandbrook should do his job not just gush.

Also the way Tabitha, the co presenter dismissed assault without much reason other than her own opinion - that’s just not good enough.

I don’t think you can discuss Orwell any more without at least a respectful nod to the totally unthanked and neglected Eileen O’Shaughnessy/Blair. She was so important in his writing, ideas, life, biography. Her omission is bad history.
It seems pretty clear to me that had he behaved even slightly better towards her - she wouldn’t have died. He was so shockingly neglectful and he knew it.

Read Wifedom. You can’t un-know what a s* he was.

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EggplantSurprise · 19/03/2026 13:16

I’ve only listened to a single episode of that podcast, about Wuthering Heights, and they both struck me as colossally under-informed, running with long-debunked theories and relying on Google. It was spectacularly dopey. So, no, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if neither of them had the remotest awareness of recent discoveries or research on GO or his wives, though I understand that Anna Funder’s Wifedom has also been subject to considerable criticism.

Basquervill · 19/03/2026 13:20

George Orwell doesn’t need to be turned into yet more fodder to Pearl clutch over. We’ve grown up, we know people arent angels, and we discuss their ideas and contributions without getting lost in a swamp of overly personal sensationalist history gossip.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 19/03/2026 13:23

TunafishSandwich · 19/03/2026 12:52

I think almost all male historical figures could be considered misogynists given the social fabric of the time.

I think this.

And also a great many talented people seem to have a flip side of being total shits!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 19/03/2026 13:24

But yes I think a podcast should be well researched and balanced in order to be taken seriously, so to that extent YANBU

EggplantSurprise · 19/03/2026 13:26

wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 13:04

I agree but shouldn’t a contemporary historian reflect new evidence and perspectives particularly when a woman has been intentionally written out of Orwell’s success?

I am not saying Orwell should be cancelled - just that Sandbrook should do his job not just gush.

Also the way Tabitha, the co presenter dismissed assault without much reason other than her own opinion - that’s just not good enough.

I don’t think you can discuss Orwell any more without at least a respectful nod to the totally unthanked and neglected Eileen O’Shaughnessy/Blair. She was so important in his writing, ideas, life, biography. Her omission is bad history.
It seems pretty clear to me that had he behaved even slightly better towards her - she wouldn’t have died. He was so shockingly neglectful and he knew it.

Read Wifedom. You can’t un-know what a s* he was.

But purely on your last point -- hasn't Wifedom attracted a lot of criticism for inaccuracies and errors?

EggplantSurprise · 19/03/2026 13:28

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 19/03/2026 13:24

But yes I think a podcast should be well researched and balanced in order to be taken seriously, so to that extent YANBU

Well, this one certainly isn't. Their version of Emily Bronte was a caricature, and focused mostly on her 'beating up' her dog, insisting on only giving piano lessons out of her own lesson times when a student in Brussels and dressing unfashionably.

wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 13:56

I believe that Funder’s research into Eileen’s life - how she worked to support Orwell financially, how she had a real job in Spain, how her editorial skills & her influence on his themes impacted his work. Her administrative skills, her desperation over money and her illness and his disappearance and staying out of touch right up until her death, his infidelities, the boat incident.
I don’t think any of this has been denied. I think it is understood that he slept with prostitites in Burma.

Not every man living at that time treated women this way. I don’t know that JRR Tolkien did so. They created the comparison in the podcast.

Funder makes clear that Orwell lovers do not want to acknowledge the extent of his shittery to women.

I resent modern biographers and historians who are not rigorous enough to try to tell the truth. Hagiography is not history Mr Sandbrook.

I’m not clutching pearls, I’m saying this woman & her work and influence has been erased and I believe that is not only wrong but that it is bad history.

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smallglassbottle · 19/03/2026 14:05

He's still an important writer. There's nothing anyone can do about the people these historic figures were. Beethoven was an absolute abusive shit towards his sister in law, but his music is amazing. Accept the work they produced on its own merit and build a wall in your mind against the character flaws. If you only accept the works that virtuous figures have produced, you're going to be struggling to find anyone.

wildfellhall · 19/03/2026 14:08

I totally agree.

It is just that Sandbrook is so popular as a history podcaster. I was surprised that this podcast was so historically limp.

Orwell can still be a great writer and a bad person but it’s not fair to write out the person that did so much for him personally and professionally. She had a huge impact and that needs putting back into his story. There were writers at that time that didn’t treat women like this. The record should reflect who he was

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ProudAmberTurtle · 19/03/2026 15:03

EggplantSurprise · 19/03/2026 13:16

I’ve only listened to a single episode of that podcast, about Wuthering Heights, and they both struck me as colossally under-informed, running with long-debunked theories and relying on Google. It was spectacularly dopey. So, no, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if neither of them had the remotest awareness of recent discoveries or research on GO or his wives, though I understand that Anna Funder’s Wifedom has also been subject to considerable criticism.

Yes - several historians have said the book Wifedom is full of errors. Some are incredibly basic like the country Orwell was born in

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