The three boys accused of taking it in turns to rape a girl have been found not guilty

[Lougle]

The three boys accused of taking it in turns to rape a girl have been found not guilty on all counts despite some of the incident being filmed. How could that be? That poor girl. I believe in justice, I wasn't in court. I just can't understand it though.

Tbe judge didnt ' let them off', they were found not guilty by the jury.

But if it was during a sex act which the clip presumably did show...

The video "evidence" doesn't prove it was non consentual. It proves they had sex. The boys never denied having sex with her. So the video proves nothing really.

If it didn't look like forced, then why would a passer by intervene?

Absolutely horrific! Although rape has practically been decriminalised for some years. The conviction rates are unbelievably low. I hope there is an appeal for this case.

Where do you ever find out what reason juries have given for their decision, I thought it was confidential?

That's a judge, not a jury. The jury can only say guilty or not guilty of a crime - they don't consider mitigating circumstances etc which is done by the judge at sentencing stage.

The whole ‘unreliable witness’ thing is deeply troubling, doesn’t this just put a target on any young person with a chaotic backgrounds back? Reading between the lines her and her friend had troubled backgrounds or behaviour, so anything they say is written off as unreliable? Making them even more vulnerable - the defence barristers speech is clear victim blaming ‘it was a shameful experience after she was called a slag by a passer by’ so she lied and said she was raped. Jesus, what kind of person walks past that scene and doesn’t break it up / offer help? So bloody depressing.

Yes, but underage sex has become normalised, when you look at the statistics showing the age that kids lose their virginity, the average seems to be getting lower. A quick google shows a report that 5% lost their virginity aged 13 or under. Yes, a lot of that will be with kids their own age, but it muddies the waters that 1 in 20 girls of the same age as this victim aren't virgins. So a jury can't "leap" to a conclusion that she couldn't have consented because she was only 13, because 1 in 20 girls DO consent.

As many have said, it's all about "beyond reasonable doubt" - a jury can't simply decide that she didn't consent to sex because she was only 13 or because there were 3 boys, etc.

Its like were going back to medieval or Victorian times where kids were seen as sexual or able to have these relationships

This is despite (and Ive been on a soap box about this for years) the increasing shrieks about 'safeguarding' and 'keeping safe'. Its actually making kids more aware of how to use sex as violence or making it more mainstream and something for them to be concerned with/something that involves them. Combined that with the exposure to porn on phones which really cant be controlled its a timebomb

I say it on every thread but role models in the media/pop/film have hugely sexualised images of females in the way you didnt see such a number of 30 or 40 years ago. All in the name of female empowerment, 'I can wear what I want'. Pop stars now look like porn actors.

Well yes, which is exactly why Rotherham happened. And it's why grooming gangs continue. They deliberately target girls from chaotic backgrounds. Those who nobody believes or cares about.

Nail on the head. Entire society is sexualising girls/women more than ever. Female pop stars never used to dress like hookers but now it seems it's a job requirement. Likewise song lyrics are more graphic then ever, even those sung by women. Given how teenagers are highly influenced by pop, even if there wasn't porn readily available on the internet/smart phones, sex and sexual imagery is almost forced upon teenagers, male and female, normalising it just from pop videos, TV shows, etc.

Um Madonna.. like a prayer was about bjs
..
Liz phair in the 90s had some v graphic lyrics
The boys boys boys video..
Sex has also sold

I don’t think this works in this case though.

If she agreed to have sex with them, went into the woods for this purpose, but then midway through realised she did not want to do it, but froze and couldn’t communicate it to them, how would they know?

They are all kids and shouldn’t be doing things like this, and something needs to change to protect children. But you can see the issue here. Yes, she is too young to be having sex, but so are the boys. It comes down to consent and if consent was given but then withdrawn, but this was not communicated then it’s a difficult situation.

Something needs to be done about this and fast. The justice system is out of date and not in line with public opinion anymore.

Like a Prayer is not about BJs, that’s very reductive and dismissive of Madonna’s work and talent.

Yes, the one line about ‘down on my knees’ has a more sexually charged meaning that could allude to oral sex but it’s subtle and is not played up to in the music video.

She doesn’t get down on her knees to any man in the video. The only time she gets on her knees is when the female choir lead touches her head in a blessing.

The song is about Madonna coming to terms with her Catholic upbringing / guilt. To reduce it to ’it’s about BJs’ is unfair.

@Badbadbunny

Yes, but underage sex has become normalised, when you look at the statistics showing the age that kids lose their virginity, the average seems to be getting lower.

I believe the age of sexual debut is actually higher now than in the 90s - that is to say that children were having their first sexual experience earlier in the 90s. The early conception rates were also higher.

However, social media and the consumption of pornography by children (27% of 12 year olds have viewed pornography) has normalised the hypersexualisation of girls as well as atypical sexual behaviour, both of which may have been contributory in this case.

I didnt realise how recent 30 years ago was, Im talking about the 70s and 80s. Full of strong, adult women who were not sexualised.

But in any case even if you quote the 90s its nothing like now.

Our "trial by jury" system has been part of our culture for centuries, based on "beyond reasonable doubt". We really can't change the justice system otherwise we'd start jailing innocent people. There has to be a high "burden of proof" to reduce the risk of miscarriages of justice that can ruin peoples' lives.

We can't jail 3 young boys on the grounds of people "believing" that a 13 year old wouldn't want sex with 3 boys. We need evidence, and evidence needs to be "beyond reasonable doubt".

I'd love to hear your idea of how you'd want to change the judicial system.

I was in secondary in the 90s.

There was definitely discussions over 'who'd lost their virginity' while I now think a fair few were talking shite, I also think a lot weren't. And that was the girls I imagine the boys were a lot worse.

It crossed my mind earlier is that still a thing in schools, not want to be the Only virgin the boys have gone on the hunt for a willing participant!

Madonna's song wasn't overtly sexual. "Get down on your knees" in a song about praying could easily be thought of as praying when listened to by a young/innocent mind. Today's lyrics are a lot more graphic and obvious with no possibility of double meanings etc.

My rapist confessed to it and was let off. The CPS admit they let rapists off on purpose to raise the conviction data.

Im surprised by the amount of people I’ve seen assuming it was because there wasn’t women/ enough women on the jury, women are just as likely to victim blame ime. I got sexually assaulted on holiday and the first thing my sister said when I told her was “dress like a slut get treated like one” it was a beach holiday abroad and I was wearing a bikini with a crochet dress cover up apparently thats dressing like a slut 🤷‍♀️

I watched a Jimmy Saville documentary today. One of his young victims was recalling how she would wear 3 pairs of knickers and stuff herself with tampons to try and fill herself up so that he couldn't put his fingers inside her. The most harrowing part of her account was when she was talking with disbelief on her face, clearly reliving it, saying, "the door was open. The people were out there. Why didn't I just shout 'get off' or scream? It's my fault.'

It wasn't her fault. She didn't scream because women don't.

That's exactly the point I was making